First time to The Grand

[Nick]

I’m ashamed to say this, but despite all the exploring I’ve done in southern Utah, I’ve never actually been to the Grand Canyon. The only time I’ve ever seen it is from an airplane. I’m heading down to St. George to work for a couple of days soon and I was thinking it’s about time I put eyes on the big ditch. I was thinking of finishing work on Friday and driving down to the north rim somewhere and camping Friday and Saturday by myself. Where should I go for the best first experience/view? The North Rim lodge? Toroweap? What are my best chances of primitive camping close to the rim? Feel free to answer in private if you prefer. Thanks in advance, BCP’ers.

 

[andyjaggy]

Oh good I'm not the only one from Utah that hasn't been there.

 

[Ugly]

This may guilt me into a trip report...
But Toroweap... it is nice, and it is vertical, but not my favorite- jmho.
North Rim in the National Park proper was one of my favorite memories. Seeing those pines just go right to the edge of the cliffs is a mental picture I can never forget.

However, last year in March we spent the night here before descending:

It was pretty sweet and there were plenty of spots like it.

Crazy Jug Point and honestly MANY other places where the road just ended on the rim were nearby.
For this one we walked down a little onto the actual point and setup on the edge.

 

[uintahiker]

I’m ashamed to say this, but despite all the exploring I’ve done in southern Utah, I’ve never actually been to the Grand Canyon.

I used to be like you. Then I visited it. I visited the south rim though. The north rim is supposed to have better scenery/vertical because the rock layers slightly are slanted to the south, so rain that falls on the south side flows away from the canyon, but on the north side flows into the canyon, resulting in some side canyons that are more water worn. Good luck and have fun!

 

[Scott Chandler]

Venturing west from the North Rim road out to Fence Point (and a couple others I can't remember the names of) is a very pleasant experience. A different view from the "everyone sees" views (and, again not the best of memory on this, you may be able to camp out there on FS land.)

 

[Nick]

This may guilt me into a trip report...
But Toroweap... it is nice, and it is vertical, but not my favorite- jmho.
North Rim in the National Park proper was one of my favorite memories. Seeing those pines just go right to the edge of the cliffs is a mental picture I can never forget.

However, last year in March we spent the night here before descending:

It was pretty sweet and there were plenty of spots like it.

Crazy Jug Point and honestly MANY other places where the road just ended on the rim were nearby.
For this one we walked down a little onto the actual point and setup on the edge.

I didn't realize you could just go camp right on the rim inside the park boundaries! I imagine this is only in certain areas you can do that?

I like trip reports.

 

[Ugly]

inside park boundaries, no, but I believe this is all national forest. I would have to check on the map, but I have stayed a couple of times on the North Rim, including this one.

 

[Nick]

I need to look closer at the map. I assumed the rim would all be inside the boundaries.

 

[o2bav8]

You want to visit Cape Final... easy 2 mile hike with amazing views & camping along the rim.

 

[Artemus]

The Grand! Teton! oh wait, the Grand Canyon!

 

[Artemus]

I need to look closer at the map. I assumed the rim would all be inside the boundaries.

It is not, but mostly. You can still get a backcountry permit to camp at large (even car camp) on some sections of the north rim in the park. Remember that picture I posted from Kanab Point? I will go look for it to repost. Too much bad advice to type right now. More later.

 

[Artemus]

Kanab Point - car camping permit in the park on the intermediate plateau. Permit probably available. An adventure to get to.

 

[Artemus]

Well, for my friend the Grand Canyon newbie (and our cherished admin) here is a decision tree.

Constraints - coming from George with only two nights available, traveling by land and not by sea:

- Have to limit yourself to the north rim only - the south rim is too far away because, well, the Grand Canyon is in the way and it takes a LONG time to drive around.

Where on the north rim for first visit?
- the drive to Toroweap from Mesquite through the Grand Canyon Parashant N.M. from Mesquite (not far from George) is backcountry and fun and ends at Toroweap but takes too much time
- the drive to Toroweap and camping there is really, really great and should not be missed. The personality is different at this level than the next plateau level up and the one above that where the NFS and park north rim headquarters are locate. It is the most vertical down to the river of anywhere in the ditch I have been. Really spectacular. There is a a great but tough route down to the river right at Lava Falls that the NPS tries to dissuade you to walk. There is a great Esplanade walk from near the campground level to the east. I've walked three days out and back along it scouting a future route. I believe the campground is no longer first come first serve and I don't know if you can reserve it online.
- the drive to Toroweap is a well known tire eater so plan on flats. I've triple flatted on it before.
- from this road to Toroweap there are several roads up, to the east, to the next plateau level where a years old struggle between the NPS, conservationists, miners and poachers has been going on. Some of the roads up there go into the Park on very difficult roads that are not maintained but end at overlooks of the Canyon that are to die for. I've soloed out there and would expect you with your 4WD experience and precautions you could to. You need a good map and a permit to camp out there. You can get these on the phone and then pick them up at the BLM office in George or that little national monument you hit on the way to Kanab from George (Pipe Springs or somesuch)
- the third level up is accessed from the pavement from the north or a dirt road in NFS land on the west side which is good. The pavement goes into the park. The dirt road access rim ending dirt roads that stay on NFS land and also some terminate in the park. You can camp informally out there. There may be other people out there as well. Some of the rim car camp spots don't have an actual view like the one above but with a 2 minute walk could.

Hiking? Well go into the park on the pavement, stay at the lodge on the rim, which isn't as cool as the lodges on the south rim but is spectacular nonetheless. Than walk down the main trail right (bright angel?) into the canyon - it is heavily engineered but way worth doing - at least several times. I've walked to the south rim from there and back - if you are feeling strong. Or better yet, follow Davey Crockett's lead and run it as a double crossing in a few hours. It is only 23 miles and 11,000' of vert AND upside down

Hope this helps... I'll try and verify the place names a little when I get a chance - this is all from memory.

You HAVE to see below the rim (my favorite) and the south rim. I believe this teaser trip will motivate you to return to do just that.

 

[Ben]

You HAVE to see below the rim (my favorite)

for me seeing the canyon from the inside is so much cooler than just looking at it from the top. Grand Canyon's one of my top two places. sorry that i don't have any thing more useful to offer than that.

 

[Kullaberg63]

I recommend Toroweap. I think we flatted only once.

In '92 we did a loop down in there somewhere. Maybe Sowats Point to the river via Kanab, and then back around. I was traveling with a girl I just met and our focus was divided between the scenery and other pressing things! Unfortunately I mostly remember the other things.

 

[Vegan.Hiker]

Hi Nick, I've only been there once but I'll pass along my 2 cents.

I didn't realize you could just go camp right on the rim inside the park boundaries! I imagine this is only in certain areas you can do that

I believe there is an awesome camp spot right on the rim called Point Sublime that you can drive out to. I'd look into it. I believe there are 2 or 3 sites there but you need a permit from the NPS and you may need a high clearance vehicle to get there.

If you are willing to car camp around other people, the North Rim campground is right on the rim. Not every site is directly on the rim but many are. There is a 1/4 mile trail along the top of the rim connecting the campground to the North Rim Lodge where you can get breakfast/lunch/dinner/a drink/coffee etc. and you can "unofficially" get a ride back to the campground by just asking since there is a van that takes employees back and forth every 20 minutes. The campground is quiet and the lodge was never overcrowded when I was there.

As @o2bav8 mentioned, the Cape Final trail is nice although I think it's 2 miles each way, so 4 miles total. The Uncle Jim Trail was a decent 7 mile loop with Alan easily missed spur to a viewpoint, but honestly, I don't think I'd really give it a recommendation. I day hiked the North Kaibab Trail down to get below the rim a little but if I had a little more time I would have tried to do a longer trip down to something called Vassey's Paradise which a guide book I own has a write-up on (and is mentioned in the Emerald Mile). If you're interested I can photocopy those pages in the guide book and mail them to you. I also think it's definitely worth driving the scenic road out to Cape Royal stopping at a few of the other view points along the way. I was pleasantly surprised as to how few cars there actually were on the road. No tour busses and only saw another car occasionally.

Overall, I was shocked at how quiet and laid back the whole north rim was. The only big crowds and packed busses I encountered on the trip were at Zion, I didn't see any at the North Rim.

I'm sure no matter what you decide to do, you'll have a blast. I look forward to hearing what you decide on and reading the trip report when you return.

 

[Nick]

Re: Toroweap, I'm perplexed as to how you guys can flat more than once and still get out of there. Did you buy a few extra tires before heading out? Probably won't risk that fiasco by myself, but it looks awesome.

@Vegan.Hiker - Point Sublime looks perfect. I don't mind having some other folks nearby since I'll be solo, but that main campground might be a bit much. It's full anyway. I'm going to call and see what the chances are of getting a permit for Point Sublime tomorrow. It would be for next weekend so I think I might be out of luck for that kind of thing.

Any hiking I do will be pretty limited. No chance I'd be able to go all the way down into it. My knee is still quite troublesome. I'm okay sitting on the rim with a book and a camera though.

@o2bav8 - Re: Cape Final. I can't find anything about camping out there. Do you mean car camping or backpacking?

Assuming I can't score a spot at Point Sublime, I think I need to figure out where some of the primitive spots are outside the park boundaries. Anyone care to share some coordinates privately? It's such a huge area, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it all, especially where the national forest ends and the park begins.

 

[Vegan.Hiker]

I don't think there are any camping options at Cape Final. Just a really nice little hike.

 

[Artemus]

Re: Toroweap, I'm perplexed as to how you guys can flat more than once and still get out of there. Did you buy a few extra tires before heading out? Probably won't risk that fiasco by myself, but it looks awesome.

Don't let the flat stories turn you off. I've flatted 2 out of 10 visits with my vehicle and strong steel belted radials that I am sure you buy. A full-size spare and a couple of cans of fix-a-flat will suffice. I also carry a plug kit as I believe you do, but I've never had to use it.

The triple flat occurrence was in my buddy's Honda Pilot. I trusted him when he said he had very good Goodyear tires and a full-size spare. We were coming back out after a tough 3 day backpack on the Tuckup trail. We flatted part way out and while getting out of the car to fix it he admitted these were Goodyears and he got a great deal on them. Turns out they were nylon belted tires. While climbing under the car to free the spare because he couldn't (the hoist was rusted up) I saw that is was a tiny emergency spare. After flatting the second tire he informed us that he had only one can of fix-a-flat and no plug kit. After the third flat still 10 miles from Kanab he informed us that he had thrown in a bicycle pump

We spent those 10 miles driving for .5 miles until we were on the rim, stopping and three strong guys pumping our brains out to get the truck back off the rim, jumping in and driving another .5 miles until back on the rim. Rinse and repeat. Needless to say our dear and cherished friend is no longer trusted to drive us somewhere serious....

Toroweap, Toroweap, Toroweap.

 

[Nick]

What's the camping prospect like at Toroweap, @Artemus? Permit required? Primitive, designated sites, etc?

I have BFG All Terrains with a full size spare, a nice pump that hooks to my battery and plenty of flat fix stuff.