Zion Fees UP

[Bob]

Zion will also start using an online reservation system on Recreation.gov for all wilderness recreation permits starting on Jan. 5, 2024. A day-use permit for eight to 12 people, for example — which includes activities like a day hike of the Virgin River Narrows — will go from costing $25 per group to $10 per person, per day.

The park will also increase the rates for overnight permits for activities like camping in designated wilderness campsites, bivouac (bivy) camping on climbs, and at-large camping in authorized areas.

Reservations made up to three months in advance, for example, will increase from $5 per reservation to $20 per reservation starting Jan. 5.

 

[Jackson]

So is the day-use permit the same as the entry fee or are they separate?

 

[Bob]

All I know is that clip out of an article.

 

[IntrepidXJ]

So is the day-use permit the same as the entry fee or are they separate?

Here is the announcement right from Zion: https://www.nps.gov/zion/learn/news/zion-2024-campground-and-wilderness-permit-changes.htm

Typically, permit fees (day or overnight) do not include the park entrance fee.

 

[fossana]

Curious if that means they are killing the Zion Express membership program (not that I canyoneer in Zion anymore).

 

[Kmatjhwy]

Wow, checked the news annoucement from Zion NP. A huge increase! Will then forget Zion for the future for it is now becoming too expensive. But there is much federal land out there still wild and nice, where to go will not cost one penny. And much country out there still where one could vanish and live with the land for days and days without many others around. Remember bigtime how it once was and it was Great! Many a time have been in Zion in either the spring or the fall with such wonderful memories, but guess this now is in the past unfortunately. Thanks for posting this news.

 

[canadug]

So sad that the National Park system is being taken over by the evil wreck.gov!! Too bad Biden and Sec Of Interior do not realize they are handing the keys over to pure EVIL........Pricing people out of their own land seems to go against why the National Park system was created in the 1st place. Zion is a zoo that just costs too much for a lot of people

 

[ImNotDedYet]

So sad that the National Park system is being taken over by the evil wreck.gov!! Too bad Biden and Sec Of Interior do not realize they are handing the keys over to pure EVIL........Pricing people out of their own land seems to go against why the National Park system was created in the 1st place. Zion is a zoo that just costs too much for a lot of people

rec.gov has been used by the national parks (and national forests, waterways and wildlife refuges) since 2002 when George W Bush's administration put it into place. To blame the current administration - no matter which political party is leading, is to ignore the past administrations that brought this on us. One might suggest we switch to a new system - to remove Booz Hamilton's income stream from rec.gov, but that would ignore the cost to the American people for how much it would cost to switch to a completely new system. And if we were to switch to a new system, would it be possible to eliminate the EVIL component of the new site's ownership - or would it merely switch to a different brand of EVIL? (likely the latter)

Meanwhile, the backlog of maintenance projects for the National Park System is $14 billion - or $23, depending on if you take the current administration's estimate for "long-term" fixes (23) as opposed to "short-term" fixes. (14)

Is there a way to eat into that backlog without raising prices? I have a hard time believing the government will allocate more money to the park system. I have some ideas, but I don't know how difficult they may be to implement, of if there are good reasons they have not already been implemented. Nonetheless, it's hard for me to think negatively of rising prices for some activities in the parks - that impact a pretty small minority of park visitors - without thinking of the growing backlog of maintenance projects which impact the majority of visitors.

 

[canadug]

rec.gov has been used by the national parks (and national forests, waterways and wildlife refuges) since 2002 when George W Bush's administration put it into place. To blame the current administration - no matter which political party is leading, is to ignore the past administrations that brought this on us. One might suggest we switch to a new system - to remove Booz Hamilton's income stream from rec.gov, but that would ignore the cost to the American people for how much it would cost to switch to a completely new system. And if we were to switch to a new system, would it be possible to eliminate the EVIL component of the new site's ownership - or would it merely switch to a different brand of EVIL? (likely the latter)

Meanwhile, the backlog of maintenance projects for the National Park System is $14 billion - or $23, depending on if you take the current administration's estimate for "long-term" fixes (23) as opposed to "short-term" fixes. (14)

Is there a way to eat into that backlog without raising prices? I have a hard time believing the government will allocate more money to the park system. I have some ideas, but I don't know how difficult they may be to implement, of if there are good reasons they have not already been implemented. Nonetheless, it's hard for me to think negatively of rising prices for some activities in the parks - that impact a pretty small minority of park visitors - without thinking of the growing backlog of maintenance projects which impact the majority of visitors.

Sadly, every government prefers to blow money on useless endeavours and that will never change. Not being able to pick up a permit in person does a disservice to most people as the rangers do not get to provide their often great advice.

 

[IntrepidXJ]

Not being able to pick up a permit in person does a disservice to most people as the rangers do not get to provide their often great advice.

From the Decision document: https://parkplanning.nps.gov/document.cfm?parkID=113&projectID=116479&documentID=133220

How will this transition change how I get my Wilderness permits? Do I no longer need to come to the Wilderness Desk?

After applying for or booking your Wilderness permit on Recreation.gov, you must visit the Wilderness Desk to receive your issued permit. This provides the opportunity to receive important information from the Wilderness Staff. This includes information on protecting park resources, current conditions, and potential risks associated with the planned trip.

 

[IntrepidXJ]

Curious if that means they are killing the Zion Express membership program (not that I canyoneer in Zion anymore).

From the Decision document: https://parkplanning.nps.gov/document.cfm?parkID=113&projectID=116479&documentID=133220

Will the Zion Express system still be available?

It is a priority for us to maintain the Zion Express system. The system will likely work a bit differently, but we are working to continue to allow users the option to print permits from home. We encourage Express Members to create a Recreation.gov login for potential future use of the system to receive permits at home. We will share more information as we work with Recreation.gov to develop this functionality.

 

[canadug]

From the Decision document: https://parkplanning.nps.gov/document.cfm?parkID=113&projectID=116479&documentID=133220

Sadly in Inyo National Forest you print out your permit at home and you no longer interact with the Rangers at the Ranger Stations

 

[wsp_scott]

Sadly in Inyo National Forest you print out your permit at home and you no longer interact with the Rangers at the Ranger Stations

From my point of view, this is win. I no longer need to fit the ranger's schedule with my schedule. Instead, I head straight for the trailhead.

One potential benefit of a visit with the ranger is the LNT talk. I don't think I need to hear it again, but I'm pretty sure that others do

 

[canadug]

From my point of view, this is win. I no longer need to fit the ranger's schedule with my schedule. Instead, I head straight for the trailhead.

One potential benefit of a visit with the ranger is the LNT talk. I don't think I need to hear it again, but I'm pretty sure that others do

Many many many other do need the LNT talk and the bear canister talk. I talked to a wilderness ranger this past summer when we were in the Sierra Range and she said the number of people not following the rules has ramped up big time since permits are online. They are not happy about what they are seeing.

 

[IntrepidXJ]

Sadly in Inyo National Forest you print out your permit at home and you no longer interact with the Rangers at the Ranger Stations

That’s a bonus to me. I avoid all contact with Rangers whenever possible!