Hiker death in Zion National park :(

Very sad to hear. I read one report which said they had set up camp, but left when they became very cold. I don't know what kind of gear they had but a "top down" hike this time of year would be very cold even under the best circumstances.
 
Sad story.
You can get hypothermia in any water canyon hike in the middle of the summer.... Winter takes special prep.... I'm wondering what questions on preparedness the nps asked before permitting them
 
Going top down in the Narrows this time of the year should only be done by well-prepared and experienced hikers.
Itʻs not a walk in the park, and water and surface temperatures are freezing.
There is barely any sunlight reaching the canyon walls in the winter months.

Iʻve done the Narrows bottom-up often on Thanksgiving Day in Shorts, but it was definitely frigid out there with water temperatures only about 43 degrees and outside temperatures in the morning around freezing
 
It's a depressing story and a reminder of the dangers of being unprepared.

The same day we had another tragedy in the NH White Mountains. A young girl died attempting to finish her 48 - totally unprepared for the weather and hiking alone. The range is notorious for sudden weather changes and white out conditions on top.

Hiker dies in the Whites
 
OldBill said:
It's a depressing story and a reminder of the dangers of being unprepared.

The same day we had another tragedy in the NH White Mountains. A young girl died attempting to finish her 48 - totally unprepared for the weather and hiking alone. The range is notorious for sudden weather changes and white out conditions on top.

Hiker dies in the Whites
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Read about the death in the Whites as well :( Being unprepared is literally an epidemic these days. I live in Vancouver, BC and there are numerous rescues in our local mountains on a weekly basis.......Majority of them are people not prepared and having done little or no research about their hike/climb/ski.
 
So sad to hear. @Yvonne - would this be a day hike they attempted? Interested if @zionsky is correct about them setting up camp and leaving it? Sorry if I missed it as I skimmed through the details! This brings up concerns I've had the last few years as ive crossed paths with several in the backcountry still packing "ultralite" in the winter months. There's a time and place for lightening the pack weight and counting every ounce- but winter time is not it. Not trying to preach, but lowering mileage expectations and packing extra layers is a message that needs to get out to people a little better outside places like this forum.

@Bob - I was thinking the same thing as you about the nps asking about preparation questions to issue a permit, that's why I'm wondering if it was a day hike with no permit needed. This thought will help me stay patient when getting so many questions from a ranger on my next trip.

Hope everyone has a safe winter season ahead!
 
I would like to think both were cases of being under-prepared vs. unprepared. Either situation can have serious consequences. The young woman in NH clearly had experience in the outdoors. But I completely agree there are tons of people out there who do little or no research before attempting difficult treks.
 
CodyL said:
So sad to hear. @Yvonne - would this be a day hike they attempted? Interested if @zionsky is correct about them setting up camp and leaving it? Sorry if I missed it as I skimmed through the details!
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The top-down Narrows hike always requires a permit, even as a dayhike. My understanding is that the NPS does not issue dayhike permits for this route during winter months because of the limited daylight. I agree that it would be interesting to know how closely the permit-issuing ranger assessed the couple's preparedness.

According to news reports, they were doing the hike as a one-night backpack and started to develop signs of hypothermia during the night. It's unclear which campsite they used, but they continued downstream in the morning. From what I've read, the hiker who died was found about 1.5 miles upstream of the Riverside Walk, which would be somewhere in the vicinity of the confluence with Orderville Canyon.

Depending on which campsite they had, they might've stood a better chance had they attempted to return to the trailhead to call for help, rather than continuing downstream into the deepest and darkest part of the Narrows. The water flow decreases upstream of the campsites, while the canyon gets shallower.

It's just such a tragedy. As with the person who died in a flash flood a few months ago in the Narrows, this death should have been preventable.
 
I thought the ranch access at the top was closed to public ..... Was that resolved?
 
I don't know the Narrows other than reading about it online. I think that both of these stories are very sad.

With that said, I don't think too much should be dumped on the rangers for asking/not asking about prepardness/preparation. Almost all of us have dealt with "overzealous" permitting rangers who don't think you are prepared. If the rangers get blamed for this, it just makes it worse for all the people who have prepared/researched conditions. The last thing I want it to be limited by the lowest common denominator in determining if I should be able to do a trip that I have extensively researched and maybe done multiple times. At a certain point, people need to own their decisions and hopefully not leave family members behind.

This sounds really cold-hearted as I write it and I feel for the families, but I'm pretty sure it is not a rangers fault/responsibility.
 
CodyL said:
So sad to hear. @Yvonne - would this be a day hike they attempted? Interested if @zionsky is correct about them setting up camp and leaving it? Sorry if I missed it as I skimmed through the details! This brings up concerns I've had the last few years as ive crossed paths with several in the backcountry still packing "ultralite" in the winter months. There's a time and place for lightening the pack weight and counting every ounce- but winter time is not it. Not trying to preach, but lowering mileage expectations and packing extra layers is a message that needs to get out to people a little better outside places like this forum.
Hope everyone has a safe winter season ahead!
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Someone could have 15 lbs of the wrong layers and easily end up in a dangerous situation vs someone packing “light” with the right gear and experience (especially with water involved).

Obviously in a case like this they likely were beyond being able to make rational decisions but I even wonder did they have sufficient food? I feel like if you’re burning sufficient calories, even if underprepared it’s hard to imagine reaching the point of death in a single night, especially with a partner. So sad.
 
Brendan S said:
Someone could have 15 lbs of the wrong layers and easily end up in a dangerous situation vs someone packing “light” with the right gear and experience (especially with water involved).

Obviously in a case like this they likely were beyond being able to make rational decisions but I even wonder did they have sufficient food? I feel like if you’re burning sufficient calories, even if underprepared it’s hard to imagine reaching the point of death in a single night, especially with a partner. So sad.
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I agree 100% with you. Weight < Experience
 
wsp_scott said:
I don't know the Narrows other than reading about it online. I think that both of these stories are very sad.

With that said, I don't think too much should be dumped on the rangers for asking/not asking about prepardness/preparation. Almost all of us have dealt with "overzealous" permitting rangers who don't think you are prepared. If the rangers get blamed for this, it just makes it worse for all the people who have prepared/researched conditions. The last thing I want it to be limited by the lowest common denominator in determining if I should be able to do a trip that I have extensively researched and maybe done multiple times. At a certain point, people need to own their decisions and hopefully not leave family members behind.

This sounds really cold-hearted as I write it and I feel for the families, but I'm pretty sure it is not a rangers fault/responsibility.
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I'm of two minds on this. On one hand, I fully agree with the NPS's mantra that "your safety is your responsibility"; it is not the job of the rangers to eliminate all risk or to prevent people from making questionable choices. But on the other hand, a lot of visitors lack the experience and knowledge to make informed, responsible decisions about the dangers of a particular activity. I think that as long as the rangers have ensured that the permit-seeker (1) knows the relevant safety considerations and (2) isn't flagrantly unprepared, they've done their part.
 
Brendan S said:
I feel like if you’re burning sufficient calories, even if underprepared it’s hard to imagine reaching the point of death in a single night, especially with a partner.
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My first thought as well. Interested in more facts coming out.

Frankly, splitting up and only the husband survives sounds like the initial telling of more than a few park ‘accidents’ that further investigation have revealed to be very different situations. Hope to be cynically incorrect.
 
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