Hiker death in Zion National park :(

Tragic! We are all monday morning quarterbacking here, but to me- the likely conclusion seems to be that they were unprepared. And if the case was that the weather turned unexpectedly, or an accidental injury was a factor (no one is saying that it is) - one should be prepared for that too. I was thinking about this sort of thing just yesterday while xc skiing in -20C (-4F) after overnight lows of -30C (-22F). I was fairly lightly dressed as it was going to be a fast energetic ski with only short water breaks, but with those temps in mind, and the fact that there would be very few others out, I had my day pack complete with ultralight tarp, down jacket, energy bars, extra mitts etc, just in case. Meanwhile I saw 2 other solo skiers with nothing more than a small fanny pack, containing not much other than phone (there is no cell service there) keys and wallet, 10 km out from the trailhead. If one of those skiers had become injured, or was forced to walk out due to equipment issues-no amount of experience was going keep them from getting very cold at the least.
 
utahastro said:
I'm of two minds on this. On one hand, I fully agree with the NPS's mantra that "your safety is your responsibility"; it is not the job of the rangers to eliminate all risk or to prevent people from making questionable choices. But on the other hand, a lot of visitors lack the experience and knowledge to make informed, responsible decisions about the dangers of a particular activity. I think that as long as the rangers have ensured that the permit-seeker (1) knows the relevant safety considerations and (2) isn't flagrantly unprepared, they've done their part.
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Used to be in Yellowstone for Backcountry, especially off site camping.... You were really grilled on your knowledge.. unless they knew you..... Maybe it's changed now?
 
Bob said:
Used to be in Yellowstone for Backcountry, especially off site camping.... You were really grilled on your knowledge.. unless they knew you..... Maybe it's changed now?
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@Bob I can remember some grillings by the Yellowstone rangers in years long past but I think the standard checklist they use now covers things pretty well. I suspect that some of the more experiences rangers can also recognize body language, dress, attitude, etc to help them ID the ones who may need some unsolicited advice. But I don't think that there is a system-wide assessment, at least that I have noticed, and there is variability within a Park depending on which ranger is issuing the permit. The Denali process is similar to Yellowstone's, but they also share a lot of the same safety issues.

To me what really sucks is that the ranger(s) who issued the permit will likely have many sleepless nights over the death, feeling like he/she could have done more to ensure the couple was better prepared. Then there's the rangers involved in the body retrieval. Horrible all around for them.

The other reality is that after a careful review of the incident by the rangers in the park, and possibly some regional involvement, it may be concluded that there really was not a whole lot that the permit issuing ranger(s) could have done to prevent this. But all it takes is some CYA office slug higher-up to decide that more needs to be done to prevent this, and suddenly the permitting process becomes a nightmare. Let's hope not.
 
Yep..... there will be fallout, more questions and maybe more restrictions......
 
There are some details regarding Emily Sotelo's hike:

She was wearing a "light jacket, hiking sneakers and exercise pants over long underwear"

I assume "hiking sneakers" meant trail runners, but still not the best selection for winter conditions. Snow was on the ground when she started. Forecast high temp was 24F, low 9F high winds (probably for the top, not base).

She planned a 13.7m loop with 5000' gain. No headlamp and no other gear. Her mother dropped her off and watched her hike off in the dark.

That night wind-chill dropped to -30F at the top. She was found off trail and off route. Missed a 90 degree turn in the trail from the hut to the summit. That's tough to find even in the best conditions.

Rescued hikers in NH can be found liable for the cost of their rescue if deemed negligent. They average 190 rescue missions each year. As others have mentioned, there are plenty of people unprepared or under-prepared. The Whites have seen a huge increase in hikers in the past few years.

Just so sad to lose someone who loved the outdoors, but was just getting started.
 
Read to many ultralight articles sounds like........ sad.
 
I did a remote, backcountry hike in Zion last month that required a permit as it crossed the upper left fork near the start of das boot. The ranger didn't ask me many questions. I'm not knocking her though as I made it very clear I had done my homework with route prep. I am of the the mindset that safety is your own responsibility, not the NPS
 
to change the subject slightly, how would *you* gear up for the Narrows top-down in full winter conditions? is that a dry suit kinda trip or just a full-body wetsuit or what?

I'm thinking about the time I took my kids through the subway. water temps at the top were not a whole lot above freezing (in May!) but in dry suits the kids were super happy and had a ton of fun. I on the other hand wore a short-pants/short-sleeve wetsuit that I had sitting around and found the first few swims to be fairly cold, though I was totally fine after that...
 
Regarding the young woman in the Whites, I think she had summit fever

from the article above "Sotelo was working toward a goal of hiking New Hampshire's 48 peaks above 4,000 feet before her 20th birthday, according to the Associated Press. She would have turned 20 on Wednesday, the day her body was found."

Based on that, it sounds like she was on her last peak and wanted to finish. I can't imagine being her mom who dropped her off. Sad that neither one knew enough to say "this is a bad idea".
 
regehr said:
to change the subject slightly, how would *you* gear up for the Narrows top-down in full winter conditions? is that a dry suit kinda trip or just a full-body wetsuit or what?

I'm thinking about the time I took my kids through the subway. water temps at the top were not a whole lot above freezing (in May!) but in dry suits the kids were super happy and had a ton of fun. I on the other hand wore a short-pants/short-sleeve wetsuit that I had sitting around and found the first few swims to be fairly cold, though I was totally fine after that...
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In full winter conditions and these cold water and air conditions, you would want to have at least a dry pant bib, neoprene socks, and water boots.
And then, when you have set up camp, change into warm layers.
Itʻs freezing in the canyon this time of the year; the wind blows and drops temperatures even more.

I did the Narrows bottom-up many times on Thanksgiving in shorts when the water temperature was about 42 degrees. But you cannot stop for long without getting really cold. I didnʻt mind getting cold legs; I have nerve damage in my lower legs and do not feel the cold anyway. But as soon as I stopped longer than a few minutes, I bundled up with a warm puffy jacket, gloves, and beanie and sat on an insulated pad.

Iʻve done the Subway in November and even jumped in the pools while icicles were hanging from the walls.
But I had an extra set of dry clothes and changed into them right away after the jump. The water was freezing, but it was worth doing the cold dip.

I guess the couple was more than just underprepared. They have probably seen too many social media videos of how awesome the hike is. It definitely is during warm weather, but during the winter, it is unforgiving and can kill you.
 
Admittedly, it's been a few years since I've gotten a Zion permit. But every time I have gotten one, I've gotten absolutely grilled despite being obviously well-prepared and competent. For that very reason, some friends and I joke that the NPS should issue a "Not An Idiot" card that allows the holder to skip the "don't trample the crypto, rappel into the unknown, or leave your poop unburied" videos.

Further to that point, I did the Narrows top-down in early April a couple years ago and got read the riot act by the grumpy ranger at the Wilderness Desk about needing a dry suit, despite the fact that I was literally already wearing it.

I suppose this is why the permit process at Zion is already so slow and paternalistic, because they have to account not only for seasoned adventurers, but also enthusiastic but inexperienced beginners. I'm personally not going to pass judgement on what the rangers did or didn't do in this case (I wasn't there). I'll simply note that the permit process at Zion in general already skews toward the "keeping the newbies alive" approach.
 
From the rangers' perspective:

I met a guy when living in Moab who was an NPS ranger at Lake Powell and was on leave after helping with so many rescues/deaths there. The park service had put him up in a short-term rental and he was on his way out because he could no longer function like he needed to. He had severe PTSD and was taking some kind of disability retirement. He had a nice dog, which he told me was his only lifeline. I was staying in the unit next to him so got to talk to him a lot and he was pretty messed up.

My point being that people who do things w/o being prepared or experienced have an impact not only on their own lives but also on those who have to deal with the aftermath.
 
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