Survivorman in Utah

[Aldaron]

I hope they didn't have to spend too much on helicopter fuel to fly in and clean up his first camp. How funny would it be if we go there and it's all still in tact? I say you scrap Halls Creek and we go this weekend!

I'm jiggy with going this weekend.

Mysteries need to be solved!

And I'll bet lunch that the camp is still intact.

 

[Dave]

Not that it excuses the behavior, but I'd be interested to know how much of Les' Utah travels were limited by government regulation. Land owners like NPS, BLM, SITLA, the county and private holders could limit his ability to really "survive". Government land agencies typically have restrictive policies in place for commercial use (like filming a television show).

I'm interested in seeing what you guys find.

 

[Aldaron]

That's a good point. I also wonder how much the network (his employer) limits what he can do for safety concerns.

 

[Nick]

Not that it excuses the behavior, but I'd be interested to know how much of Les' Utah travels were limited by government regulation. Land owners like NPS, BLM, SITLA, the county and private holders could limit his ability to really "survive". Government land agencies typically have restrictive policies in place for commercial use (like filming a television show).

I think he was where he was for exactly this reason. If you think about all of the red rock deserts throughout the state, this little pocket is about as unregulated as it gets.

 

[Jammer]

Maybe I'm naive, but... I have always thought of him as the *real* adventure guy (as much as this is possible within the confines of tv.) So... I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and bet, er hope, he started down on Ticaboo for 2 days and the footage was bad for some reason so they "re-created" the experience up by the highway as quickly/easily as possible. If not... damn him!

- JG

 

[Aldaron]

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping, too. For the same reason.

 

[Nick]

Maybe I'm naive, but... I have always thought of him as the *real* adventure guy (as much as this is possible within the confines of tv.) So... I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and bet, er hope, he started down on Ticaboo for 2 days and the footage was bad for some reason so they "re-created" the experience up by the highway as quickly/easily as possible. If not... damn him!

- JG

Sad to say but I'm positive that isn't the case. If you watch the episode, he is most definitely in that spot 300 yards off the highway for the first two full days.

EDIT: I somehow missed the 'bad footage' part of your statement. Gotcha and agreed.

 

[Aldaron]

But what if he did start from Smith Fork and then headed north across the desert to South Fork Ticaboo, and it took him two long, boring days to get there, so he went and quickly staged two days next to the road to fill in the boring desert walk?

Hmmm...

 

[Aldaron]

Or he had a memory card failure from the first of the trip...or any other number of reasons.

 

[Jammer]

Isn't there a disclaimer at the end of each episode? Something like "certain events non-vital to the experience may have been re-created".

I'd love to take a closer look at the actual wording now that you guys have uncovered this.

- JG

 

[Nick]

I may have to go rent the episode to see what all the hoopla is about even though I can't stand the guy.

Just curious, why don't you like Les, Art? I mean, aside from this recent revelation, I've always thought he was a pretty solid, respectable guy and a good friend of nature. Sure you aren't thinking of Bear from Man vs. Wild?

I'd love to take a closer look at the actual wording now that you guys have uncovered this.

I just have to point out that it was mr. federal agent man @Aldaron that figured all this out! Blame him for never being able to think of Les the same again!

 

[Aldaron]

The more I think about your idea, @Jammer, the more it makes sense to me. If he had actually been walking across the desert from Smith Fork to Ticaboo, then he would have been out of water. And when he's at the first camp, as @Nick pointed out, he says that he needs water which is why he needs to move, even though he was surrounded by snow.

Well, if he actually filmed those "first" two days AFTER the walk across the desert, then he would have needed to set up his "later" comments about needing water as he was walking down into Ticaboo Creek...which, in reality, had actually occurred after a two day walk across the Cane Spring Desert and Ticaboo Mesa, and not after driving/flying from the north side of Mt Holmes to the south side.

Does that make sense?

And if he just needed to quickly re-create those two days because the footage was bad or lost or something, then he wouldn't have wanted to go far to do it.

My wife had a great idea: Nick, you could try to contact him and see if he would do a Q&A on the site...maybe some sort of live event for users. You could advertise the crap out of that.

 

[Aldaron]

I just have to point out that it was mr. federal agent man @Aldaron that figured all this out! Blame him for never being able to think of Les the same again!

I warned you that you weren't going to like my conclusions before I posted them!

But I'm clinging to Jammer's idea...if it's an explanation like that, it will redeem him in my eyes!

 

[HomerJ]

Makes you wonder if he actually slept in those camps or if he walked over to the warm comfy RV being that close to the road for the night........

I sure hope not as I really like Les.

 

[Bob]

It's TV.... made to entertain, not prove things, although half the population thinks survival type shows are gospel. After all if the star died so would the series............. GAG

 

[Nick]

The more I think about your idea, @Jammer, the more it makes sense to me...

Although I think it is a bit far fetched, I am feeling like this is a reasonable theory. As the crow flies, it's about 7 miles from the drop off point in Smith Fork to where he went in at Ticaboo. Probably at least 10 miles or more the way he would have to have walked. Totally doable. This would account for the ridiculous comments he made at the north Holmes camp like "the crew can fly in and clean this up" and "I could probably bike out of here in 3 days".

I wonder what the original plan would have been though. Highly unlikely there are any ways to get down into the Smith Fork slot over there and I'm sure they knew that. Perhaps the original plan was to get to the slot, go 'oh wow, can't get down there', then hike out and across the desert to Ticaboo? That also would account for the weak ass excuse of not being able to find a way down into Milk Creek by the north Holmes camp. And that would make sense for a trip that you're going to spend a week doing. Sucking melted snow out of potholes the first few days above Smith Fork then hiking over to Ticaboo. It's totally plausible. Makes a lot more sense than walking from the north end of the little rockies to the south (along a road, lol).

My wife had a great idea: Nick, you could try to contact him and see if he would do a Q&A on the site...maybe some sort of live event for users. You could advertise the crap out of that.

Now that's what I'm talking about. Unfortunately I think we're a few million members away from that coming true! I do think we should contact them after our exploration this weekend and ask though. I'd like to think that this would at least deserve a comment.

 

[Yellowstone 1]

I have to say I am a little bummed because I like his show. He shows you feasible techniques for surviving not outrageous ones like Bear Poop. I think it would be interesting to say the least if you called him on it, especially after your research. A little shout to him in private wouldn't hurt and might get his actual reasoning for it.

 

[Aldaron]

I wonder what the original plan would have been though.

I was wondering this, too. It would make a little sense to include a desert walk, since everything else was slickrock and canyon, so maybe they would have done it just for the sake of having different terrain.

That having been said, I went back through the episode trying to find some visual support for that theory, such as different clothes or a different bike. I thought that if the real-life sequence of events was that he rode the bike at Smith Fork and then originally cannibalized it somewhere nearby, and then he later went to the Milk Creek site to re-create the first two days and he re-cannibalized the bike, then it would be a different bike when he was dropped off by the helicopter and when he was tearing it apart at Milk Creek.

Unfortunately, both bikes appear to have the same colors. It doesn't mean they couldn't have been different bikes, but it doesn't look like they were.

Inconclusive, but certainly not helpful for the hopeful theory.

 

[Nick]

Totally agree, @Yellowstone 1. Hell, I still really like Les and his show, even if this is just par for the course and not some weird situation. Definitely changes my opinion but I still like it.

 

[Artemus]

It's TV.... made to entertain, ..................... GAG

And that is the essence of my disinterest/dislike @Nick. Hopefully not offending. Hell, seeing this thread going to four pages in like two days shows you guys are interested in this guy. True confessions, I have never even dialed up a show called Survivorman because I lumped him in with Bear WingNut. To me.. you guys: Bob, Jammer, TIm, Dave, Dan, MIchael, Miss Buffalo, Nick and ALL the rest here are hanging it out like I am in the backcountry and I call what you do "reality" tv or at least reality-forum-trip-report-posting. Keep it coming. I don't need Bear. I got you guys and gals.

I will now watch this episode if I can find it - primarily to find out what this place I missed in Utah is like to decide whether I should visit.

And now the system administrator needs to redact everything said here about @Aldaron. He may have to go undercover at anytime. Or move to Georgia or something....