Ticaboo Creek aka Survivorman is a Fake?

[Nick]

Thanks, Greg. She's quite the hiker too. Hopefully we'll have another chance to hike together this year and you can meet her. I think she might even fit in my kayak with me if I lose the beer holder.

RE: Survivorman doing the stuff we do. For me, one of the most disappointing aspects of this, aside from the blatant lying, is that it would have been really easy to NOT fake it so much. He started out by Swett Creek, why not figure out a route down that way? That's a beautiful canyon with plenty to see and explore. Dry parts, wet parts, plenty of opportunities to 'survive'. Swett Creek would make GREAT TV!

I wouldn't be disappointed at all if they set out a route well ahead of time and even storyboarded it a bit. "Okay, Les. Walk over this bench for two miles and that'll be the 'can't find water' part. Then you'll get to a break where you can access Swett Creek. Head down canyon blah blah you'll find a tiny spring. Act like it's a freaking miracle. Hit two rocks together and kill a squirrel.. blah blah" Crap like that seems okay to me. To know ROUGHLY what you're getting into, much like we do when we go backpacking in these places, but to dramatize it a bit for TV, I'm okay with. But yeah, the level of fibbery, at least in this episode is just pathetic. It's interesting to read some of the counter-arguments on facebook. Stuff like 'he is just teaching survival, it doesn't matter if he's next to the road'. Yeah, true - except that part where he claims to be the only legit guy on TV who really goes deep and does it alone. I can't wait until this thread gets noticed by the real fanboys.

 

[Udink]

it would have been really easy to NOT fake it so much

Yes! This is the thing that disappoints me the most about Les. He goes 90% of the distance required to do it right, then effs it up the last 10%.

BTW Nick, Sage is beautiful!

True story. Torrey is getting jealous of how much I like Sage.

 

[gnwatts]

I had some time today (when I had absolutely nothing to do) and watched the episode in question. Aside from the previously stated,
I have a couple of lingering thoughts....
Using a bicycle tube for a canteen? Give me a break.
Starting a fire (and for a reason I can't fathom) on the slickrock. teaching bad etiquette.
Why make his camp 30 minutes from water (for another reason I can't fathom), and then complain the water is 30 minutes away?
How can anyone trust anything this guy put's on TV?

 

[Dave]

You can't say he is not much different from us then lament the fact that he lies, and makes a great deal of money (probably) off his lies.

I don't lament it. I don't much care beyond that it's disappointing. I will say that as a journalist (which Les is not, obviously) I find his methods unethical.

When saying he's not that different than us, I mean it in the sense that he takes trips and then tells stories about them. That's where the similarities appear to end.

He obviously doesn't share the same ethos as many hardcore or even casual backcountry enthusiasts. But what's drawn him such a fan base is his ability to sell the idea that he's the genuine article.

 

[Laura]

But what's drawn him such a fan base is his ability to sell the idea that he's the genuine article.

I agree. It's no surprise that "reality TV" isn't, but when you're presenting yourself as the genuine article, then there's an ethics issue. He could just as easily do the show demonstrating survival techniques without the facade, but to advertise that you're in the middle of nowhere surviving by your wits when you can walk 300 meters and hitchhike out is just plain unethical.

 

[Laura]

Good thing they muted the sounds of the highway. A passing semi would really spoil the whole wilderness thing.

LOL! I'll bet if you get hold of the outtakes you'll find they had to cut a few scenes out because of passing semi's.

 

[Nick]

Hate to say it, but the deception continues....

I don't know if you guys saw it, but Les posted a picture of himself at his Utah campsite by the highway earlier this week on Facebook. Myself and a couple other people posted on his timeline about it. I left a link to this thread and asked him when he was coming back to clean up his camp. This is currently how I see the post when I'm logged into Facebook:



I thought it was weird that aside from one like right after I posted, only people who are my friends had liked it, so I did a little digging. It turns out to the general public or anyone not my friend, the posts linking to this thread are not visible at all on that post. I run some pages but I'd never heard of that kind of option, so I tried deleting a post on the BCP page. Guess what it says?



So basically, Les and/or his people know about this thread and they are doing what they can to hide it.

Now I'm willing to admit it is possible they just don't allow links to be posted. Oh wait... they do... or maybe they're just slow to remove the ones that don't show what a fraud the guy might be.



Bad move, Les.

 

[Nick]

Just did a new post, this time on his 'Survivorman featuring Les Stroud' page. Let's see how long til they ban me.

 

[River]

Does Bear have a FB page? You should share it on there.

 

[Nick]

Haha. Yeah, I bet Bear would love to hear about this! I'm not a fan of the conflictiness of it all though. Fun new word there! I was kind of peeved when I saw they deleted us, but now the bitchiness ensuing on Facebook over this at the moment is making me want to re-forget about it.

 

[Aldaron]

but now the bitchiness ensuing on Facebook over this at the moment is making me want to re-forget about it.

Are you surprised that people are upset? I'm actually surprised that MORE people aren't upset. I only see one guy arguing with you...I really expected to see dozens of people up in arms. There are a lot of people out there who will refuse to believe this is true. It makes me feel good that the arguers aren't dismissing the evidence, but instead they're arguing that the evidence doesn't matter. That makes me feel good because that means the evidence is solid. There will always be people who will refuse to change their minds about something. For me, if they're hiding/deleting the links on FB, then I'm glad you posted something. I don't mind the "dramatization" nearly as much as I mind the hiding it...that just makes me want to get the word out more. I've been very confused over why there haven't been people coming here and posting something about how stupid we are from the link on his FB page. I expected that a long time ago.

 

[gnwatts]

Let his sponsor or sponsors know about this. If they know they are sponsoring a fraud they might hit him where it hurts the most- his pocketbook. $ is what makes it all go round.

 

[Aldaron]

Does Bear have a FB page? You should share it on there.

If he's hiding the links, I really like this idea.

 

[DAA]

Hate to say it, but the deception continues....

...

Bad move, Les.

Need a "like this post ten thousand times" button.

- DAA

 

[Aldaron]

When people make the argument that it's "just a show" and that we all know it's not real, I would get out ahead of that argument by pointing out that the show appears on the Discovery Channel. The Discovery Channel doesn't show sitcoms or game shows...it shows "real" television. Are we supposed to assess all of the shows on the Discovery Channel the same way we assess shows on Comedy Central? If television is "fake," does that mean the show Planet Earth on the Discovery Channel is fake? There is no more disclaimer on Survivorman than there is on Planet Earth. And I believe that the information they show me on Planet Earth is real...it's a documentary. Why am I supposed to think that Survivorman is entitled to lie to me, but Planet Earth is obligated to tell me the truth? Man vs. Wild at least has a disclaimer...where is Survivorman's disclaimer?

And if this is just one episode, and that's not indicative of the other episodes, then where is Les to explain that fact? He's already been caught in one deception, why is he not responding to our emails or posts to defend himself? His silence speaks volumes. Until he can prove that he's not always deceiving, then all we have is the evidence that he deceives...or at least he over-dramatizes.

And doesn't Les do most of his own hosting, filming, producing, narrating, and editing? This isn't a case where some headline writer is screwing up the gist of a reporter's story: this is all on him.

I'm going to refine those arguments a little and add them to my website. So far, the only argument I've really seen from the disciples is that this is just how TV is and we should know that. But I don't see any reason why we should believe that Survivorman is any different from Planet Earth...and we all agree that Planet Earth is real, right? In other words, you can't make the claim that ALL television is fake, because it's not ALL fake. And if one is fake and another one isn't, then the network or the producers have a responsibility to note the difference.

 

[Aldaron]

If I look at his page from other accounts who aren't friends with anyone, I still see links to the BCP thread on his FB page. Maybe I'm looking at different links than you are?

And, yeah, I haven't seen the posts in response to that picture that you posted...I looked at older posts with the links. So it looks like I'm looking at different links. At least they didn't hide ALL of the links!

 

[DAA]

When people make the argument that it's "just a show" and that we all know it's not real, I would get out ahead of that argument by pointing out that the show appears on the Discovery Channel. The Discovery Channel doesn't show sitcoms or game shows...it shows "real" television. Are we supposed to assess all of the shows on the Discovery Channel the same way we assess shows on Comedy Central?

Well... Ehhh... Look, this is just my view, and I absolutely don't want to offend you or anyone else in sharing it. But, well... Ummm... Uhhh... Yeah, my default point of view is that yes, I assess all the shows on TV, Disco channel included, about the same as I assess an episode of Beavis and Butthead. It's ALL bullshit. Seriously. ALL OF IT. Bullshit. That's my take.

Now, obviously, there is a continuum. Endless shades of gray. From harmless, well meaning bullshit, to decietful, agenda promoting bullshit and every which kind of flavor and aroma and consistency and color of bullshit in between. But... IT's ALL BULLSHIT.

And yes, I absolutely do included Planet Earth and all the other Nat Geo and Disco channel "documentaries" in that view. They are all bullshit too. You can decide for yourself to what degree, how deceitful, how egregious. But it is all bullshit. Sure, the footage is the footage. It's not like they are CGI'ing the whole thing. But almost ALL of the narration and ALL of the "storyline" IS BULLSHIT. Dramatization rules. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story etc.

A single example. Saw a Nat Geo show not too long ago called "She Wolf" or something like that. About an alpha female wolf in Yellowstone. The footage was amazing. Majestic. Breathtaking. The narration, storyline and dramatization was so over the top, pure fiction and just so utterly ridiculous and impossible it was insulting to my intelligence. I can only imagine it was intended for people who only think they know anything about wild animals but who are inclined to buy themselves a stairway to heaven by writing checks to rip off non-profit advocacy groups or something.

All of Nat Geo and the Disco channels "documentaries" like this follow the same formula. A talented and dedicated individual or crew goes out and spends the time required, perhaps a year or more in some cases, getting absolutely STUNNING footage of wild animals. Then they take that footage and slice and dice and come up with a compelling storyline and narration script to go along with the footage. The narration and storyline vary from pure, 100% fiction, heavily laced with agenda promotion, to mildly dramatized to take advantage of great footage and make it even more compelling to the viewer than it would be if the real truth were told.

Like I said, endless flavors, colors, consistencies and aromas of bullshit. But, it is ALL BULLSHIT.

I presumed from the first second of Survivorman I ever saw that it was total bullshit. I presume the same for everything else I see on TV. And I would actually put the Disco channel on the list of heavy bullshit purveyors. The intent, malice, agenda etc., varies greatly - but I think that channel in particular is just 100% bullshit all the time. Planet Earth included... Unless you turn the sound off?

- DAA

 

[Aldaron]

Don't worry! That doesn't offend me! You're probably right...I'm just not that pessimistic, yet

 

[ROKTAXI]

.... if it "sounds too good to be true..." syndrome. It's almost like another take on photo-chopping / editing.

Twilight Zone also comes to mind.

 

[DAA]

Don't worry! That doesn't offend me! You're probably right...I'm just not that pessimistic, yet

I'm an optimist, actually.

Just a cynical and jaded one, is all...

- DAA