Bears Ears National Monument

Udink said:
Or perhaps, instead of designating it a monument and drawing more people to it, you could just not mention it at all? You know, not draw a giant bullseye around it and give it a cute name? Too late now, I know. Cat's outta the bag.
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That one cuts both ways though... if there's too little "awareness" (I hate that word and concept) around an area, no one will fight to protect it (see: Glen Canyon 50 years ago)
 
I'm going to chime in. I hate that things like hole in the rock might lose designation, and huge amounts of bears ears will be cut out (even with knowledge of the sites there) but the thing is, bears ears is in a hard place. Neglecting it doesn't give it the love it deserves and people won't fight for it, but fighting for it brings more people there that might destroy it. This is a land area/policy that is frankly VERY complicated. Im glad that people are fighting for it, but with the people in government right now it's going to be a long fight and the best thing might be to just hope that maybe things end up okay in the end. Its very tricky to navigate and will be a problem spot in Utah for a long time, but maybe if we just respect it and hold each other to that then we can atleast do our part in helping the place in our own way
 
Udink said:
Or perhaps, instead of designating it a monument and drawing more people to it, you could just not mention it at all? You know, not draw a giant bullseye around it and give it a cute name? Too late now, I know. Cat's outta the bag.
Click to expand...

If Bears Ears could have remained status quo...largely unknown to those not living in the southwest region...without any interest of other industries seeking leases and claims beyond what was already being honored before it became a monument...I think would have been my preference. If only because being able to get a permit into Grand Gulch, Moonhouse, etc...which I've yet to be able to work out with any, would have been a lot less competitive. From what I understand though...that may not have been the case for a whole lot longer though. But he whole area was in limbo and apparently monument status was the only way to preserve as much of the natural state that remained there long enjoyed by so many. That said, because it became a monument and because of all the controversy preceding it and resulting from it, everyone knows about it now, and so throngs more people want to check it all out and hence much great competition for trailhead permits where required, and potentially a few more careless or ignorant visitors to some of the sensitive sites despite the increased awareness and support from many more, and so forth. With the good, comes the bad.

But I think it also comes down to LNT. While I love some solitude and being able to find open campsites a plenty, along the road sides and out along the trails...I'm ok with sharing trails and even campsites in areas I expected to find solitude if those others are striving to practice LNT ethics and respect the pristine landscape and its rules and regulations. In that case, they have all the right to be there as I do and you can meet some pretty cool people while out and about. In fact, if people had always been more educated and committed to LNT, I'm guessing we'd probably have a lot less rules, regulations, and even less need for permits for some places. After all...often times a rule or regulation is brought about because somebody, or many weren't exercising respect and common sense, but instead abused or neglected something. But that's all a different discussion.

LarryBoy said:
That one cuts both ways though... if there's too little "awareness" (I hate that word and concept) around an area, no one will fight to protect it (see: Glen Canyon 50 years ago)
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A two-edged sword, indeed. As just stated above, with the good comes the bad, and visa versa. If there's one thing I've learned in life, for every advantage, there's almost always a disadvantage. For every pro, a con. For every benefit, a risk or loss.
 
Udink said:
Or perhaps, instead of designating it a monument and drawing more people to it, you could just not mention it at all? You know, not draw a giant bullseye around it and give it a cute name? Too late now, I know. Cat's outta the bag.
Click to expand...
LarryBoy said:
That one cuts both ways though... if there's too little "awareness" (I hate that word and concept) around an area, no one will fight to protect it (see: Glen Canyon 50 years ago)
Click to expand...

I would also argue that the fight against the designation has given Bears Ears far more of a spotlight than the designation alone could have ever done. So in a sense, if people had just shut up and let it happen, it would be closer to what it was prior to designation but with the benefits.
 
Artemus said:
Heads up.

There is a rally at the State Capital organized by many organizations Monday for you to give "public input" on this. See ya there?
https://www.facebook.com/events/162299857692025/

There will also be a gathering on Monday along the parade route or at the capital when Trump is here. Keep your eyes open and weigh in on how you feel about the proposed downsizing and splitting and mining.
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Unfortunately I will be at work here in San Diego on Monday, so someone please protest for me and let Drumpf know how I feel about this, preferably using one finger. I did make a donation to SUWA, NRDC, and the Wilderness Society in lieu of being there.
 
What a real bummer.

HiTR will be just another Kodachrome filled with paved roads, RV's and dog shit. I'll bet there will a big visitors center with RV hook ups and flush toilets within 5 years. Coyote is already so full of people that I skipped the last trip my hiking buddies took there.
 
Nick said:
I would also argue that the fight against the designation has given Bears Ears far more of a spotlight than the designation alone could have ever done. So in a sense, if people had just shut up and let it happen, it would be closer to what it was prior to designation but with the benefits.
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I’m curious what things would have looked like if it had been Greater Canyonlands rather than Bears Ears designated. I do feel like Bears Ears is a fairly unique combo of catchy name, controversy, and region that was still relatively unknown to the greater public. Greater Canyonlands would have had the already-existing sink of the NP that would have taken much of the novelty traffic and it’s a nice and boring name.
 
Well, that speech sucked. It's like he didn't even understand what he was talking about, rambling about how he was giving the land back to local control instead of to bureaucrats in DC. I guess locals can graze cows on it now, but it's still ultimately under the control of the BLM (bureaucrats in DC). And extraction companies probably wouldn't be local either.

It bothered me a lot more than I thought it would, especially when he signed the proclamation for GSENM. Like others have said, this had better not lead to them paving Hole-in-the-Rock Road.
 
Hope everyone is doing well. When I read the news today I immediately thought of everyone on this forum and how upset so many of you would be. Just wanted to offer my support. Don’t let them turn UT into the northeast where they actually put abandoned mining sites on hiking maps.
 
I find it really disheartening. Its like they refused to read the twenty or so report that was given upon creation of the monument. They cite, "people losing their way of life" and "we are protection relgious activities of native americans" which the monument designation already protected. I do think there were harsher hunting restrictions, but that's hunting, i personally don't care, but it shouldn't be the basis of all arguments. They claim its protecting ruins and significant cultural sites, but put cultural sites on their map that aren't covered by the reduction :( i dont know guys.... I feel its hard to see the ignorance, and then when anyone counters them, they just point the finger and double down on the lies.... sorry needed to rant there.
 
Nick said:
Anyone heard of any lawsuits yet? I want to donate money to the groups that are fighting this the hardest.
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Both the Natural Resources Defense Council and the Wilderness Society are filing lawsuits, and each got the highest ranking on Charity Watch as far as how they use their dollars. SUWA was pretty high as well, and I'm sure the will file something. Since this has such far-reaching ramifications as far as the Antiquities Act, I imagine they all will be fighting this hard.
 
My trip to SLC was to be a part of the protest. Sorry I didn't see your post, Artemis, or I would've looked for you guys there. Sometimes you feel like nothing matters. I will donate, as it's about all I know to do.

In some ways it feels like a copout, but I'm seriously thinking about applying for Canadian citizenship. I almost did a year ago, and jumped through the first part of the hoops to see if I qualify, and I do. Maybe it's time to pursue it further. I think I would be happy in Whitehorse. I think I would be less depressed with endless nights than I would be with endless BS.

But I probably won't. I was planning on moving to Alaska a few years ago, and I had a dream that I was there and looking around and saying, "But there's no redrock here."

Sometimes I think the human race is devolving, but this site always cheers me up when I see the level of intelligence and love for the wilderness here.
 
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I can't believe how many comments and posts I've seen today from people who support this move that believe the state owned these lands before the Monuments were created and now believe it's being returned to them! No wonder these kinds of things are happening...

I was never a fan of having Bears Ears created in the first place, but what's happening now doesn't feel right either.
 
Rockskipper said:
I'm seriously thinking about applying for Canadian citizenship. I almost did a year ago, and jumped through the first part of the hoops to see if I qualify, and I do. Maybe it's time to pursue it further. I think I would be happy in Whitehorse. I think I would be less depressed with endless nights than I would be with endless BS.
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It is just too cold up there Rockskipper so I'm going to stay and fight. LOL

I had to live on the Turtle Mountain Plateau for a couple of years and saw 40 below for weeks at a time during some periods. Snow lingered in our front yard for 6 months of the year. We set off fireworks on the forth of July in our winter coats and that was very strange. We were ten miles south of the border and went into Canada a lot. Most of them come down here or to Mexico to retire. Now I live 60 miles north of that border (Mexico). LOL So far this season it has not dipped below 70 for the high. My kind of November and December.

I think the test in the courts, something never looked at before there, will be interesting. I hope it is stopped like most of you. More protection, not less and I'm fed up with the misconceptions and lies, again like most of you here. Hopefully a hard rain is gonna fall...
 
Rockskipper said:
My trip to SLC was to be a part of the protest. Sorry I didn't see your post, Artemis, or I would've looked for you guys there. Sometimes you feel like nothing matters. I will donate, as it's about all I know to do.

In some ways it feels like a copout, but I'm seriously thinking about applying for Canadian citizenship. I almost did a year ago, and jumped through the first part of the hoops to see if I qualify, and I do. Maybe it's time to pursue it further. I think I would be happy in Whitehorse. I think I would be less depressed with endless nights than I would be with endless BS.

But I probably won't. I was planning on moving to Alaska a few years ago, and I had a dream that I was there and looking around and saying, "But there's no redrock here."

Sometimes I think the human race is devolving, but this site always cheers me up when I see the level of intelligence and love for the wilderness here.
Click to expand...

Well I was there in force for both Saturday and today. I wouldn't really know how to find you since your moniker is not descriptive of your appearance and you are shy about sharing your photo :) You have seen enough of me to find me, I suppose. I would have liked to meet you. I would like to meet you so give a shout next time you are in town and we will make it happen.

Don't let BLOTUS get you down too much. Stay involved and work hard and we and the land will get through it.
 
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