backpacking & the state of the Art

WasatchWill said:
If you're going to carry a multi-tool, I don't think you can go wrong with Leatherman's Squirt or Gerber's Dime. Relatively light, very compact, and very useful indeed!

I know a guy who won't go out into the backcountry without his hatchet. I don't understand it, but it was a sentimental item with a unique handle that's been in his family for a while. I don't think he goes chopping down live trees with it though. I think he just carries it for an extra measure of security. As for fires themselves. I won't ever go out of my way to build a new fire ring (except in an emergency survival situation), but if I find myself at an already established campsite with a fire ring set up and it's a relatively cold night and I'm not so exhausted to want to get to bed ASAP, then I will enjoy a small fire if I there is an abundance of dry fallen wood to be found scattered about the area.
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sounds like he read Hatchet as a kid, and thinks its the ONLY way to survive!
 
I prefer to hike alone. I'm selfish that way. When I go on a hike with a friend or small group I still enjoy myself but it's more of an external experience as opposed to an internal experience when I hike alone. I still enjoy being social and friendly when I run into other hikers but I like to hike my own hike. The exception is when my wife joins me. I enjoy that too but in a very different way. What I can't stand are large groups (like the meetup.com groups) that walk around like a loud, boisterous party.
 
Back to fires. I have no problem letting forests burn as part of the natural succession of things. And that process has absolutely nothing to do with trashing out wilderness camp sites building fire rings and cooking the ground beneath them. Those don't go away without help and even with help, the scars can last decades. And for some reason, seems those inclined can't be happy using an already desecrated site but have to constantly build more of them. I have torn many scores of those apart but it's a loosing battle and I find myself avoiding what were some really nice areas because of that. As for sites near motorized access, yes, almost without exception, they have already been sacrificed. Fire rings may be a small part of the overall problem with those, but not an insignificant part of the problem. Except for a single backcountry lake I'm still rather fond of at the end of a somewhat challenging 4x4 trail, I don't use those places anymore.
 
steve said:
Also keep in mind that a lot more people get out than in the old days. The impact of people on the land is greater than ever. If everyone insisted on a bonfire at every camp, there would be far fewer trees. I'm not anti fire, but 80% of the time I don't have a fire, and never a bonfire unless we are car camping and we bring our own wood.

In general, if you need a saw to have a fire then something is wrong. I guess it could be handy if you found a huge dead log you needed to chop up. My years in scouts taught me to leave no trace and to make a small but efficient fire and to use deadfall. It saddens me when i hear people chopping down trees for firewood while I'm backpacking, especially when there are so few trees left in some high mountain areas. In my opinion, nobody should need to chop or cut anything off a tree in order to have a fire unless it's an absolute emergency or you're on private land.
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I agree with all that... the word bonfire seems to be causing a lot of concern, Ill just say my "Bonfire" for backpacking purposes would be equal to what you might burn in the fireplace in your home. the larger variety of fire where people are throwing whole Pallets on the flames in My world is called a BLISS PIT.

and I contend, that the "designated campsite" is a manifest example of USFS MISMANAGMENT and is in fact the root CAUSE of fires in the woods being an issue. We saw designated campsites thru the sawtooths in the 80s.... what was the result of these supposed OKd areas being hoisted upon us? Ill tell ya... today,you hike thru Miles of beautiful forest where going off trail is an exersize in STUMP JUMPING to arrive at a designated DESERT. devoid of a single twig to burn because its been Mismanaged. If hikers were "allowed" to pick their campsite by natural criteria, the problem wouldn't exist. firewood.... is r e n e w a b l e if only Forest Service Brains were too, wed not be debating this.

Case in point... Rainbow gatherings. 10 to 15k people in the woods camped for 2 weeks solid. 50plus kitchens, at least as many probably 75 Bliss Pits another hundred personal fires in a 5 mile square... most burning all night long. that burns a LOT of firewood. By the end of the first week, Im collecting & stockpileing wood to be sure I can cook....
Montana 2000s gathering site, 8 miles south of Wisdom Mt. access to the site thru private land an on to USFS ground. the rancher could have blocked access if he felt the effect was detrimental , He didnt, he welcomed us back. 14 years later, 15K people went right back to the EXACT SAME SPOT. and I had more firewood there than I could burn.
USFS pigeon holes everybody into Designated spots... But they never ROTATE those spots do they! or allow alternates... nope! they just force the abuse of an area till they scream overuse and close it. But they sure have ya all burning coal oil don't they!
the prosecutions rests your honor....
 
John Goering said:
Back to fires. I have no problem letting forests burn as part of the natural succession of things. And that process has absolutely nothing to do with trashing out wilderness camp sites building fire rings and cooking the ground beneath them. Those don't go away without help and even with help, the scars can last decades. And for some reason, seems those inclined can't be happy using an already desecrated site but have to constantly build more of them. I have torn many scores of those apart but it's a loosing battle and I find myself avoiding what were some really nice areas because of that. As for sites near motorized access, yes, almost without exception, they have already been sacrificed. Fire rings may be a small part of the overall problem with those, but not an insignificant part of the problem. Except for a single backcountry lake I'm still rather fond of at the end of a somewhat challenging 4x4 trail, I don't use those places anymore.
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I am a absolute believer in disappearing a campsite after use. whether I built the ring or not. I have in the past, researched the area I planed to go in, with the hippy conventions, and carried USFS location approved natural grass seed in and left it spread behind me. I advocate responcible use, not abuse.
and I am resolved to spend a few nights in the woods this summer WITHOUT a fire to give you felloes method a fair whirl. (I did come to this site after all. to be brought up to speed)
 
Last summer I spent 4 days in the Sawtooths without a fire due to fire restrictions...and it sucked! We did go to bed much earlier though.
The next week went to the Uintas to hike up Kings Peak and the first thing my son asked...can we build a fire on this trip? We did, and it makes the nights and mornings soooo much more enjoyable.
 
backwoodsBob said:
USFS pigeon holes everybody into Designated spots...
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The crux of the problem, yes. Buuuuttttttttt, if you are only a small group, the USFS usually has next to NO restrictions, NO designated sites, and no permits required. My personal opinion is large events like the Rainbow gatherings shouldn't even be allowed on public land. What they are doing is just letting you use the areas WE have already sacrificed, the most appropriate alternative.
 
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Parma said:
As for a saw, I've never had the need. When I need firewood I'm pretty good with the ole foot stomp or spinning round house to a branch on a fallen tree. Besides, dead wood burns much easier.
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Same here. I use my boot and body weight to do all the cutting I need.
 
i hiked in the sawtooths several week ends this summer, and never had or saw a fire, and i loved it.
 
Let me clarify...the trip to the Sawtooths was amazing!
What sucked was not being able to have a small campfire. I love sitting around the campfire at nights.
 
i imagine that part of my experience was that i was alone on every one of those trips. in company a fire makes for nicer sitting around
 
It didn't stop us from sitting around the camp fire ring that was already at the camp we stopped at though.
and i think the fire ban was lifted the week after we left too.
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I'm used to not having fires. Most wilderness areas I backpack in don't allow them. I do enjoy them when I have them though.

There are definitely times when a fire is life saving. I've been on quite a few week long trips where the weather got wet, cold, and snowy. I've had people in my hiking party go into the early stages of hypothermia. I've also had situations where everything, including me, gets wet. A fire not only helps with all of that, but also works as a mood lifter.
 
I like a fire now and then if the circumstances allow. But I've also found that a single candle lantern gives a very similar ambience when sitting around it in a small group. Just enough light to see each others faces and chat, plus you can sit around on your pads and in bags to keep warm without fear of coals popping out.

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Joey said:
There are definitely times when a fire is life saving. I've been on quite a few week long trips where the weather got wet, cold, and snowy. I've had people in my hiking party go into the early stages of hypothermia.
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And I have to argue that almost all of those cases are the direct result of not properly preparing for the intended trip. Those few lbs removed from the pack can have a big cost attached to them. I would much sooner have that fleece jacket along that I didn't need rather than finding myself in dire need of it and it's at home.
 
John Goering said:
The crux of the problem, yes. Buuuuttttttttt, if you are only a small group, the USFS usually has next to NO restrictions, NO designated sites, and no permits required. My personal opinion is large events like the Rainbow gatherings shouldn't even be allowed on public land. What they are doing is just letting you use the areas WE have already sacrificed, the most appropriate alternative.
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Oh John, You are so mistaken it HURTS! ... ted turner and Hanoi Jayne have brainwashed you up there in Bozeman! let me help you out here brother.... That mindset is dangerous and I cant let it go unchallenged..

there are 3 folded and cased American Flags on my wall at home.... Hallowed and grim reminders of a price paid by my family, for Our freedoms in these United States.... No Government "LETS ME" or "GIVES ME PERMISSION" to exercise a God Given Right. (specifically in this case the right to peaceably assemble ) . the ONLY EXCEPTION to that rule IS private ground. (You cant bring your party to my house) or, in other words, your freedom to be you, INCLUDES my freedom to be free from you on my own private ground.
We now return you to your pleasant Backpacking thread....
 
John Goering said:
And I have to argue that almost all of those cases are the direct result of not properly preparing for the intended trip. Those few lbs removed from the pack can have a big cost attached to them. I would much sooner have that fleece jacket along that I didn't need rather than finding myself in dire need of it and it's at home.
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You are kind of making a lot of assumptions though. I didn't tell any details to any specific story, and was really just summing up multiple events I've experienced. In several instances people were prepared.

Your point is valid though. A lot can be prevented by being better prepared.
 
Nick said:
I like a fire now and then if the circumstances allow. But I've also found that a single candle lantern gives a very similar ambience when sitting around it in a small group. Just enough light to see each others faces and chat, plus you can sit around on your pads and in bags to keep warm without fear of coals popping out.

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but but but... how do you roast your marshmellows?! I know, I know, don't tell me.... too heavy ;)
 
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