backpacking & the state of the Art

[backwoodsBob]

Ok Im hearing You guys saying a 50 miler would bring your pack to 25 or 30 lbs...ok I know freeze dried food has got to be a lot of that, but You made my jaw drop! Educate me for a moment if you will... Im Familiar with layering Clothing, but I don't currently have anything Id consider mission specific in lightweight tecnoflash backpack clothing. is there a lot of weight to be lost here via Tech? lets pretend your headed to the Uintas early this summer. we all know it can get freeking COLD at 10,000 feet there, How much of your clothing is typically High tech beyond bluejeans with cargo pockets? Would you describe clothing load out for say, 50 miles, 8 days ?

 

[Nick]

25-30 pounds for a 50 miler sounds pretty optimistic to me. But then again, I'm not usually the lightest pack in my groups. I'm usually in the mid to high 30's. When I tried to do the Highline, my pack was 37 pounds.

For clothing, I would never pack or wear jeans. Cotton and heavy. For pants/shorts, I just bring one pair of nylon convertibles. Quick drying, versatile, but not very warm. Some friends bring long underwear for them, but I don't. For a shirt, I do synthetic hiking shirt and down jacket for warmth. Sometimes I'll pack a lightweight long sleeve synthetic shirt too. I pack a light rain shell and/or poncho if the trip calls for it, but a lot of times I'll leave them behind if precip chances are low and I feel confident that I have an alternate if the shiz goes down (natural shelters, tarp, etc). I wouldn't leave that kind of thing behind in the mountains though.

I always bring a beanie, and then on my feet just normal socks and boots. For 3+ day trips I bring an extra pair of socks. One I designate as 'camp socks' that only get worn in camp until that last day or two. I don't bring any extra clothing as I figure if I get really cold or wet I'll just get in my sleeping bag or sit around a fire. If I have a dog with me, I'll usually pack a small piece of a foam pad to sit on and for the dog to sleep on. That helps to keep warm. With all that said, I tend to run really warm so a lot of the people I hike with have a lot more warm stuff.

 

[backwoodsBob]

wow Nick...you just cut my clothing list in half....
I was taught to wear double socks for hiking, a thin wicking layer and a heavier wool for cushion. so I was expecting to load 4pair (2 sets)
Ill look into some synthetics! I was taught to take, the pants you plan to wear, a light color cotton T, a dark color T shirt (all cotton in my day) a wool long sleeve, Thermals (dependent on the weather and I do have a nice modern pair of those) a watchcap, (bennie) a sewing needle & thread, to repair the tear in whatever , and then your coat.(when weight wasn't an issue Ithought a warm hoodie did the trick there) and a poncho, our standard would cover us and our pack on our back, or we trash baged our snoozer to keep it dry. ) 4a wind shell we just carried a big black trashbag or 2, we called it all purpose plastic) .... when you say down coat, are you referring to what Im seeing called a "puffy jacket" kind of a miniature down ski parka?

 

[Nick]

when you say down coat, are you referring to what Im seeing called a "puffy jacket" kind of a miniature down ski parka?

Yep. Not the super puffy kind, but the lighter/thinner ones. Typically arond 10-16 ounces for the whole coat.

I keep Leukotape in my bag to fix torn clothes and tape up feet/first aid needs. It blows duct tape out of the water and I suck at sewing. I've seen Leukotape hold the bottom half of convertibles on for a whole trip when a zipper failed.

 

[steve]

Bob, check out this book. It will completely change the way you look at backpacking. Apart from the big 3 (tent, bag, pad), you don't need to spend big money to go lightweight.

Here are some videos from the author.

I'm not going to lie, 25-30 lbs is pretty optimistic, but doable for sure. Food is definitely the heaviest part. I don't take jeans or multiples of anything other than socks. The easiest way to lighten your load is to leave more stuff at home. Ultralight is more of a mindset than a gear list.

 

[steve]

we also bring leukotape, tenacious tape, cuben tape, and a sewing kit. So far we've only had to use the sewing kit for repairs.

 

[Nick]

I'm not going to lie, 25-30 lbs is pretty optimistic, but doable for sure.

Totally agree with this. And really not even that hard if you do it by 'the book'. In my typical mid-30's weight I'm not trimming it that tight. It usually includes luxuries like a full size tripod, an extra lens and a liter or two of something to sip around the campfire.

 

[backwoodsBob]

we also bring leukotape, tenacious tape, cuben tape, and a sewing kit. So far we've only had to use the sewing kit for repairs.

Those were Great Vids! Im lovin plowin thru them ad their links! Thanks Steve! a lot of food for thought! Clearly some repackaging of my Ruck is in order! I love the repackaged tape, My first aid kit and the authors are Very similar , But Ive always kept a few extra items that would lend themselves to more grievous disasters on hand burn cream, prep pads , anomia inhalants triangular bandage etc .... But I could loose the box its in for a Ziploc bag fr sure! But if I dream about pouring engine oil from a gallom diesel can into an eyedropper bottle tonight, Im commin for ya.... LOL

 

[Joey]

I personally don't pay much attention to weight. I usually don't even pack my backpack until I get to the trail. So I have no clue how much it weighs. I totally understand the light weight thing though, and I can go light weight when I know its necessary. A lot of times it just depends on the trip. And the reality is most of the gear I'm using is pretty light weight as it is.

But I like being comfortable, especially since I spend a lot of time out there. I usually bring a pillow. A real full size pillow. My journal weighs 5 pounds easily. And I usually just throw a glass jar of pesto sauce into my food bag. I've been cold, wet, and hungry one to many times. So I bring extra stuff. I'm used to it.

Back in the late 2000's, I didn't have much money. I wanted to backpack my summers instead of working. So I couldn't afford to buy new gear, and had to go with what I had. I had this old (and awesome) North Face 3 man Expedition 25 4 season tent. The thing was double walled, and bomb proof. It also weighed close to 10 pounds. It was the only tent I had that didn't leak. So I lugged that thing around with me everywhere, all over Glacier and Yellowstone. People would see me next to it, and ask where the rest of my group was.

The Expedition 25 tent I used to carry.


Some people really get into gear, and others don't. Nothing wrong with either. And I don't really care too much about what gear others are using, or what cars they drive to the trailhead in. I will usually ask someone I see about something they're using if its something I'm interested in. And I always talk to people if they are friendly. But I definitely don't seek out people in the backcountry, or even try to have conversation.
I just go with the flow. If I see people and they don't see me, I most often times avoid them all together. I also usually let them do all the talking. I've definitely hidden (or maybe stayed out of sight is a better word) from people just to avoid interaction.

I say all this, but just know I would definitely take something lighter if I can.

In the end, you will remember the stories, not the gear. Unless of course its a story of bringing too much gear.

 

[Joey]

So I was trying to ask in a way, has backpacking in my absence become like walking the streets of New York City? Where folks (generally) just ignore ya and would prefer you left them alone, or Is it still a social circle out there in the trees? when I was younger, & we encountered hikers a ways out, we viewed it then as an occasion to seek them out & visit like minded folks. maybe combine foods for a interparty feast... "mandate" was probably the wrong choice of word.

What brought that particular question to mind was a post I read, where the writer seemed less than excited to see others on the trail or popular spot....and several folks concurred... It struck me as Different from what I knew. We would hike around the lake to make ourselves known. & would welcome visitors around our fires. I gather that's not the thing to do anymore? would actions like that be viewed as "strange or suspect" today?

I would never, ever walk around a lake in the backcountry and introduce myself to other campers. I'm not there for people. It doesn't mean I'm mean or unfriendly, and in real life I get along with everyone pretty well. But I definitely don't go into the woods to be social with others. I go for the experience, for the adventure.

You can go backpacking in Grand Teton National Park, and see 100 people in a few hours on the trail. And 99% of them aren't like minded folks like me. And there is a big difference in seeing someone deep in the backcountry, and seeing someone within a day or 2 of the trail.

Do you go to the shopping malls and try to talk to everyone you come across? Are you all like minded because your at a mall? Or are you all possibly there for different reasons? Same thing can be said for going into the woods. Everyone has different reasons.

I'm not trying to say your wrong for wanting to be social in the backcountry. In fact, I've made some good hiking buddies from chance encounters while backpacking. And its definitely nothing like the streets of New York. But seeking out others seems kind of like invading people's privacy.

 

[mak1277]

This is an interesting discussion.

re: lightening up
for me, the biggest trick for lightening my pack load has been just being conscious about what I'm carrying and not carrying stuff "just because". I don't carry changes of clothes, backups for backups, etc. I have a reasonably light base gear package for 3-seasons backpacking...around 14 pounds (not including clothes worn while hiking, food or water). Add in water and 8 days of food and I'd be in the mid 30 pound range. That being said, I don't have any gear that I'd consider to be extremely expensive. My tent weighs just north of 2lbs, but cost less than $300. My clothing definitely is not breaking the bank. My stove was DIY and cost me less than $1.

re: solitude, friendliness, etc.
I'm probably more outgoing when I'm backpacking than I am in the real world...but I am not out looking for people to talk to. If I went on a backpacking trip and never saw another person, it wouldn't upset me at all. I am in the same boat as @Joey where I'd never walk around a lake just to say hi to someone. But when I pass people on the trail, or see them at an overlook or something, I'll say hi and be happy having a brief conversation. I'm definitely NOT out backpacking to have a big communal party around a campfire...but there's no right and wrong here...everyone is looking for something different. I suppose the OP would likely consider me to be unfriendly if we met at camp because I would most likely try and exit a conversation that lasted more than 5 or 10 minutes...just my personality.

 

[John Goering]

In the end, you will remember the stories, not the gear. Unless of course its a story of bringing too much gear.

Unless you brought the wrong gear or insufficient gear. But then that becomes part of the story assuming you live through it.

I'm not trying to say your wrong for wanting to be social in the backcountry. In fact, I've made some good hiking buddies from chance encounters while backpacking. And its definitely nothing like the streets of New York. But seeking out others seems kind of like invading people's privacy.

Well said and my thoughts also. We ran into a couple of guys almost as old as myself at Cairn Lake in the Tooth's last summer and had a very nice 20 minute chat but I don't seek those encounters out.

I feel the same way about my off-road adventures. I go the places I like to go the get a little solitude and being in a line of 25 other Jeeps has absolutely no appeal. No purpose in bringing the city with you. My wife and I more often than not go solo, backpacking or otherwise.

 

[backwoodsBob]

[QUOTE="Joey, I had this old (and awesome) North Face 3 man Expedition 25 4 season tent. The thing was double walled, and bomb proof. It also weighed close to 10 pounds. It was the only tent I had that didn't leak. So I lugged that thing around with me everywhere, all over Glacier and Yellowstone. People would see me next to it, and ask where the rest of my group was."

"I just go with the flow."

That tent IS awesome!

 

[Joey]

"I just go with the flow."

That tent IS awesome!

I loved that tent. It was so warm. That's one piece of gear that others will mention when telling stories about past trips with me.

"Go with the flow" really is the best way to describe me. I kind of gauge people when I encounter them. When I do meet like minded people, I end up talking with them more, and have shared camps and camp fires many times. Every situation is unique. I have also had people invite themselves into my camp when I wasn't comfortable with it.

 

[Joey]

Unless you brought the wrong gear or insufficient gear. But then that becomes part of the story assuming you live through it.

Very true. Like the time a few years back when my water filter broke, and I drank water from Enus Lake in the Teton Wilderness. Giardia sucks.

 

[Chuck the Mauler]

Now I know where I stand @Joey. You didn't share ONE fire with us. NOT ONE!

 

[Bob]

Ha, I still carry some things I started with back in the 80's, no sense in replacing something that works fine. Although I finally parted with my original brass SVEA stove, when I found it was a collectors item...

 

[John Goering]

Ha, I still carry some things I started with back in the 80's, no sense in replacing something that works fine. Although I finally parted with my original brass SVEA stove, when I found it was a collectors item...

Uber rare and uber expensive? hmmmmmmmm And 8R's?

I still use a few items from the era also, but just about everything has been replaced the last 10 years. One item is the water bag we made from a box wine bladder. That's the yellow item here

I think the bladder is from a 3L box but you can get close to 5L in it. Fill it up before dinner and it's good for that and breakfast plus filling the next days water bottles.

 

[backwoodsBob]

So heres another querie... in todays ultralight (or weight conscious ) world, does anybody carry a BOWSAW anymore? I understand the farther out one goes the more plentiful unmolested firewood becomes and verse visa, but with all this":carry your own stove action" I see, Im wondering if necessity has driven it?

Ya~all have me questioning the state of firewood in the popular areas... ?? Ive seen the shoestring bowsaws, (Colagans) and question their durability.... Im reading guys are their whittling with razor blades... and apparently there are those who might shun a fire altogether, (unfathomable in my mind) So Im guessing the reasonable bonfire has fallen out of vogue? Ive packed a hatchet years ago, and another in our party usually had a folding Bow saw, but all this education has me rethinking everything! Firewood and campcraft~ what do you good folks carry for tools?

 

[IntrepidXJ]

A lot of the popular areas do not allow fires, which is why many of us have to carry a stove.

So heres another querie... in todays ultralight (or weight conscious ) world, does anybody carry a BOWSAW anymore? I understand the farther out one goes the more plentiful unmolested firewood becomes and verse visa, but with all this":carry your own stove action" I see, Im wondering if necessity has driven it?

Ya~all have me questioning the state of firewood in the popular areas... ?? Ive seen the shoestring bowsaws, (Colagans) and question their durability.... Im reading guys are their whittling with razor blades... and apparently there are those who might shun a fire altogether, (unfathomable in my mind) So Im guessing the reasonable bonfire has fallen out of vogue? Ive packed a hatchet years ago, and another in our party usually had a folding Bow saw, but all this education has me rethinking everything! Firewood and campcraft~ what do you good folks carry for tools?