Biting the Bullet on a GPS

[Nick]

As a long time Garmin user, I disagree.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I was a long time Garmin user and I honestly don't know how anyone can enjoy using that god awful user interface.

 

[wsp_scott]

I'll throw in another recommendation for Backcountry Navigator for Android. If there are water issues (paddling), I keep the phone in a ziplock, never had any problems.

 

[ramblinman]

Good discussion in here. I've never used a smartphone for backcountry navigation, and I'm excited to check out some of the apps that have been mentioned.

From the sound of things most people are using the phone in airplane mode, which would allow for navigation using saved maps, but not true GPS, correct? Is the idea that you occasionally turn service on to determine location and make waypoints? If so, how reliable is a signal in remote areas? I assume this differs vastly based on the area, and ones provider. I've never used technology other than cameras in the backcountry, so I really have no idea. My unfounded impression was that there is typically no service in the backcountry, so using a phone as a GPS (location and tracking, not just for reading maps) is mostly impossible. Sounds like I'm just wrong, and need to catch up with all the fancy new technology

Also, this is a bit off topic, but what do ya'll prefer for charing up your phone for longer trips? Solar chargers, or just an extra battery to plug into your phone?

 

[Jackson]

From the sound of things most people are using the phone in airplane mode, which would allow for navigation using saved maps, but not true GPS, correct? Is the idea that you occasionally turn service on to determine location and make waypoints? If so, how reliable is a signal in remote areas?

GPS actually works with airplane mode on. Unless you're in a really narrow, deep canyon or dense forest, your phone can use GPS (which is independent from your cellular and mobile data service) to determine your location anywhere in the backcountry. So having airplane mode on is perfect since service is nonexistent most of the time anyway. Saves a ton of battery.

I've never used mine to mark waypoints or track my route, but I use it infrequently with Google Maps to determine where I am and roughly gauge how far I have to go.

 

[Aldaron]

You don't have to take it out of airplane mode to use the GPS. At least not on the iPhone...I assume the Android phones are the same. The GPS receiver is separate from the phone radio, so you just need a clear view of the sky to get a GPS signal.

For charging, just look for any portable phone battery charger, such as:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YOP7LV8/?tag=backcountrypo-20

Or

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JIWQPMW/?tag=backcountrypo-20

But there are hundreds of choices. I carry a small lightweight charger for short trips that gives me one full charge and a big heavy one for long trips that gives me like 8 or 9 full charges. But I've never needed more than one full charge even on extended trips, so I may stop carrying the heavy battery.

 

[Bob]

I had the Garmin 60 for many years, now have the Garmin 62. Once you get past the menus and figuring the setups ... cant be beat. They have plenty of decent map sets now.... As far as batteries I use the Lit Ion s...... get a 10 day trip on a set easily. As far as canyons.....has worked most everywhere in Death Hollow and other canyons. A phone one will have a tougher time.

 

[ramblinman]

Cool, thanks for the information. Can't believe I didn't know GPS works in airplane mode!

I've got a nexus 5x, which has a huge screen and eats up battery like crazy. I will take a look at larger power supplies.

 

[DrNed]

what do ya'll prefer for charging up your phone for longer trips? Solar chargers, or just an extra battery to plug into your phone?

I've used both solar and this battery.

I'm not what you call an ultralight backpacker, so I take both on my trips.
Although, once I got the battery my use of the solar charger has been rare.

Another reason for using the smartphone GPS, in my opinion, it also functions
as my camera, books, music and any other media I want with me.

Mostly though, its what I like.
@IntrepidXJ uses a stand alone GPS because its what he likes.

Find out what you like.

Try out the phone GPS Apps, if you like 'em great. If you find you're worried
about protecting your phone and getting a signal, bite the bullet.

 

[Aldaron]

Totally. Get what you're comfortable using.

One useful thing I've also found with a phone in the backcountry, besides the things DrNed mentioned, is keeping instruction manuals with me. I have saved manuals for my camera, Steripen, compass, GoPro, first aid, etc. I rarely need them, but it doesn't cost any weight to have them. And just this weekend I couldn't remember how to unlock my headlamp to turn it on...luckily I had the manual on my phone. I even have an entire first aid book on there. Of course, you can still do that even if you have a separate GPS, I just wanted to mention it as another useful thing to do with your phone.

 

[Wyatt Carson]

I remember Nick saying a couple years ago that smart phone have a GPS chip now. I ended up getting an iPad mini 2 about a year and half ago to read books and surf with, music with bluetooth speaker and the zillion things they can do. They take some pretty good images too, not near a DSLR but pretty good. I did not get cellular with mine so no GPS but I can see why some like to have their books, etc and no extra weight for GPS.

I did get the Garmin Legend C way back when because of the 36 hr battery life for 2 AA's. It was twice the life of any other GPS and 3X the life of many. I don't know how it stands now but 36 hours serves me so well I don't have to worry about turning it off and on during the days, just leave it on. Two extra AAs are not big deal in the pack.

 

[WasatchWill]

Just to add my two cents, I would start with trial of just an app or two on the phone, like Gaia or Backcountry Navigator. Both enable you to save/download/cache topo and/or aerial imagery maps of the area you'll be in for offline use and then the app can use your phone's gps to locate your current position on the map.

Because GPS works off satellites in the sky above and not cell towers, it will usually work anywhere where you have an open view of the sky, regardless of whether you have cell reception or not. Because most remote areas in the backcountry do not get cell reception, it is wise to keep your phone in airplane mode because this turns off all your phone's cell radios and keeps them from draining your battery always searching for service and making attempts to connect.

Another option is to draw out your route with Caltopo, print to PDF, and then download the PDF URL into an app called Avenza Maps. The Caltopo PDF map will be geospatial allowing for the Avenza app to also use your phone's GPS to locate your position on the map and show your progess or how close you are to your route and which way to go, should you go off course. Unfortunately, this functionality with Avenza now costs $30 a year after being free for so long.

All of these options also allow the ability to track your route in various intervals, set waypoints and attach geotagged pictures as desired, tell you your pace, and so on, if you're into that thing. Personally, I've never found much value or benefit in tracking my trips for all those stats because if I preplan my route well, I will already have an idea of what those stats will be. At any rate, I still always take a paper topo map and compass as a backup and sometimes as a primary navigation tool when going into unfamiliar areas.

That all said, I did just get an old Delorme In Reach satellite communicator off eBay to be paired with my phone. It's now serviced by Garmin and can track me via GPS and provide a live view of my progress of certain trips to my wife and kids back home just for fun, so I may end up doing that every now and then. But the real reason for it is so that I can have two way text communication with my wife or others via satellite when I am away from any cell reception, and to make contact with emergency services from anywhere, should the need arise.

 

[Udink]

I was about to chime in with my love for Garmin GPS units (having used, in order since 2003: eTrex Legend, GPSMAP 60, GPSMAP 60csx, and GPSMAP 64). But after reading this thread I would definitely consider a used smartphone. Do any of the smartphone apps allow you to save your GPS track and waypoints to a computer as a GPX or KML/KMZ file? Anyone know if you can load a GPX file full of, say, 1,000 geocaches and have it display correctly on a map/satellite image?

 

[Dave]

Do any of the smartphone apps allow you to save your GPS track and waypoints to a computer as a GPX or KML/KMZ file? Anyone know if you can load a GPX file full of, say, 1,000 geocaches and have it display correctly on a map/satellite image?

Yes on both counts. GaiaGPS has great import/export support.

 

[Nick]

@Udink, yes to all. The waypoints cluster at zoomed out levels. This is what I have on my phone right now. You can also toggle visibility of folders of tracks and points.



Zoomed in a bit

 

[Nick]

Every time I go someplace I create a gpx file on my computer and upload it through the Gaia website and it magically appears on my phone. I even have one of my friends logins and upload to his too.

 

[Brendan S]

I was about to chime in with my love for Garmin GPS units (having used, in order since 2003: eTrex Legend, GPSMAP 60, GPSMAP 60csx, and GPSMAP 64). But after reading this thread I would definitely consider a used smartphone. Do any of the smartphone apps allow you to save your GPS track and waypoints to a computer as a GPX or KML/KMZ file? Anyone know if you can load a GPX file full of, say, 1,000 geocaches and have it display correctly on a map/satellite image?

Yes, you can. I haven't done kml/kmz but it's easy to import/export gpx files.

I've used both quite a bit. I've used several Garmin units for work (bio surveys..in hand recording stuff all day). They only advantage I feel like the standalone units have is if I'm mapping a huge area of plants where I'm marking a bunch of waypoints. With the etrex I don't even need to look at the unit, just a couple button pushes and it's done. It's a little more tedious with a phone. It can also be easier to see in bright sunlight and is a little easier to hold for hours than my Note 4.

For navigation and everything else, the added resolution and map flexibility of a phone is way better. It's really hard to imagine how Garmin can stick around in the coming years. They're about 15 years behind in most aspects with phone tech growing way faster. I feel like the one niche is the inreach/communication area but I imagine improving phone service will eventually make that obsolete as well. Professional users that demand the most accuracy are using submeter units already. Just hard to see much room between the Trimble and phone markets in the future.

 

[Kyle P]

Thanks everyone for your help on this! There has been some awesome discussion here covering just about everything I needed to know.

I think my plan is along with what WasatchWill was saying. I will test out the phone apps this spring and if I'm happy with them, then great!

I already leave my phone on airplane mode when hiking and use it for all pictures, so if I can get the battery to last (I carry a charger that will give me 1 full recharge), then that is definitely the way to go.

Thanks again!

Kyle

 

[slc_dan]

Every time I go someplace I create a gpx file on my computer and upload it through the Gaia website and it magically appears on my phone. I even have one of my friends logins and upload to his too.

I've just been emailing the kml/gpx to myself, then opening it in Gaia. I'll have to look at that.

 

[andyjaggy]

I enjoy my 25 dollar monthly cell phone bill and don't need the extra distractions and time wasting that a smart phone would inevitably lead to, so I don't own one. Instead I've used the Garmin Oregon for quite a few years and have been happy with it, if I had a smart phone though I would definitely consider making the switch. It is really nice being able to share batteries between my GPS and headlamp, plus the GPS works for probably 3-4 days before the batteries run out, but I have had to switch out batteries from my headlamp to keep it going on occasion.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I used a Garmin Oregon for quite a few years and I've used the eTrex. I much prefer my iPhone with Gaia GPS installed to anything Garmin makes.

Same here.