Bears in Salt Creek Canyon, Canyonlands

Outdoor_Fool

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charged 3 different times by bull moose
Interesting. In my bear and wildlife safety courses, I ask if anyone has, or knows someone who has been charged by a bull moose. I have never received a "yes" answer. There's plenty that have been charged by cow moose. Now I can say I know of someone who has been charged by a bull, 3 times no less.
 

Bob Wire

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Interesting. In my bear and wildlife safety courses, I ask if anyone has, or knows someone who has been charged by a bull moose. I have never received a "yes" answer. There's plenty that have been charged by cow moose. Now I can say I know of someone who has been charged by a bull, 3 times no less.
20 years in Alaska skiing on groomed cross country trails accounted for all of them. At twenty feet, they stop, rear up and streak away snorting and shaking their heads.
 

Jackson

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It is definitely a topic for another thread, but the recent messages here reminded me of it: sometime, I'd like to get a discussion going on the whole "moose are more dangerous than bears/I am more concerned about moose than I am about bears" line I hear a lot. I disagree with those statements, but I would be interested to hear the arguments for and against it from other people.
 

Rockskipper

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I recall reading an account by a guide in Alaska who came upon a grizz who had been stomped to death by a moose. He said it was obvious from the sharp hoof prints all over it. He postulated the grizz had been after a calf.
 

gnwatts

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He strode through Carbondale and ended up up in front of our house.
I have not been this close to a grizz, so I can't address the whole "who is more dangerous" discussion. But I don't think he liked me.

IMG_2378 (2).jpg
 

Bob

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Bob, Now personally am more leery of big Bull or Cow Moose then Grizzlies. Have heard many a person being charged by a Moose. Another reason to carry Bear Spray. In my hikes I always always give the Moose plenty of space.
Or Bison..
 

Laura V.

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Bob, Now personally am more leery of big Bull or Cow Moose then Grizzlies. Have heard many a person being charged by a Moose. Another reason to carry Bear Spray. In my hikes I always always give the Moose plenty of space.
Yes! Moose are nothing to mess with. I was chased by a Cow while living in Denali years ago.
 
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Udink

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Having been threatened with a gun at Moonhouse ruins, charged 3 different times by bull moose and finding my tracks being followed by a cougar, the bear spray never leaves the outside, handy pocket in the pack on my back.

It is definitely a topic for another thread, but the recent messages here reminded me of it: sometime, I'd like to get a discussion going on the whole "moose are more dangerous than bears/I am more concerned about moose than I am about bears" line I hear a lot. I disagree with those statements, but I would be interested to hear the arguments for and against it from other people.
That's what you took from this? :D I'd love to hear more about the Moonhouse encounter.
 

Outdoor_Fool

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@Jackson, I think the important thing to remember is that bears, moose, and a whole lot of other critters can kill you, if you end up in a situation that triggers that type of response. That is what Kayla is referring to (I think) when she reminds us that our brains are our best weapon. We need to learn what situations are to be avoided and do our best to avoid them. People that go into the outdoors with the idea that they are in a Disney movie can succeed in their adventures for a long time with no ill effects, but usually, at some point, their luck runs out. This can be in the form of trips and falls, drowning, weather, animals, or whatever.

This from an article (2016) on Outsideonline.com

1613672900112.png
 

Jackson

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@Jackson, I think the important thing to remember is that bears, moose, and a whole lot of other critters can kill you, if you end up in a situation that triggers that type of response. That is what Kayla is referring to (I think) when she reminds us that our brains are our best weapon. We need to learn what situations are to be avoided and do our best to avoid them. People that go into the outdoors with the idea that they are in a Disney movie can succeed in their adventures for a long time with no ill effects, but usually, at some point, their luck runs out. This can be in the form of trips and falls, drowning, weather, animals, or whatever.

This from an article (2016) on Outsideonline.com

View attachment 96308
Oh I agree. We need to prioritize the risks based on likelihood and avoid hyperfocusing on the less realistic risks our imaginations are most susceptible to (bear attacks, serial killers attacking you in your tent). My original comment about moose danger was really just me saying I wonder what makes people specifically say that moose are actually more dangerous than bears. Haha. It's really just a pointless curiosity of mine that I think is interesting to discuss. I always try to give either animal (and any animal, really) a wide berth, and I've fortunately never had a bad encounter despite accidentally coming within 3-5 yards of a cow moose and her calf at dusk by myself.

Anyway, I remember some old posts by @Aldaron to the same effect as this chart. Basically that you should take the most care avoiding steep drops and dangerous water like cold lakes and swift fords because that's what's most likely to kill you, assuming you don't die in a car crash on your way to the National Park or wherever you go.

Edit: Sorry for distracting from the subject of the post. If I were to go to the Needles by myself, I probably wouldn't bring bear spray. If my wife were to come along, she'd probably advocate for it, and I'd bring it. This conversation has made me reconsider my stance though because I usually only carry it in places with grizzly bears. But I know that if I ever had a run-in with a black bear outside of grizzly country, I'd be kicking myself for leaving the bear spray at home. So maybe I actually would bring it to the Needles, or at least Salt Creek in particular.
 
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Bob

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wsp_scott

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Rockskipper

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I've spent a lot of time in areas with bears and moose and other critters since I was a kid, and the only animal-related injury I've ever had was when I got bit by my own dog - put me in urgent care with stitches in both legs and a long course of antibiotics. (Don't try to stop a dogfight by kicking at them.)

My feeling is that the things that you least suspect are the ones that are most likely to get you, cause you're not mentally prepared. I never thought my beloved shotgun-riding dog would bite me, though it was my own fault. The majority of deaths in Yellowstone are from car crashes, probably because people were all looking for bears and such instead of paying attention to the road. In Glacier, the majority of deaths are from falling into frigid water. In Arches and Canyonlands, it's from the heat or falling. Etc. And yet we obsess about killer animals and such (I'm guilty myself).
 
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scatman

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Bears, moose and bison! C'mon, you can do better than that. What about the scariest animal in the backcountry today? That's right, The Scatman! Slow afoot, permanent scowl, electric hair, mumbles to himself, irresistible white legs, and a bit ripe if you approach too close to him. He is every backpackers worst nightmare.

If you see him facedown next to the trail, be sure and give him a wide berth. If not, he will reach out and grab you by the ankle, throw you to the ground and make off with your food bag (and any appealing water bottles). :devil:

He tends to be hungry, really hungry and angry too. Hangry as they say! You know the kind of angry, like @Bob rolling him through a patch of prickly pear cacti in one of the canyons of the Wind Rivers. :D

Not impressed you say. Well, imagine the scat rolling into your campsite and stomping out your campfire while wearing his fireproof kilt! Or perhaps, at sloth speed, shimmying up the bear pole to make off with all your goodies (He's not smart enough to untie the knots of your chords). Don't try and hide in your tent either. He'll just saunter on over to it, and with his weak left knee, lean over then collapse on top of you. With his portly body, you'll never get him off. A slow and agonizing death to be sure. You'd be wishing you'd pitched that tent/tarp next to a widowmaker instead.

I know what you're thinking, "I've got my bear spray, let's see how he handle this." Well let me tell you right now, he's sprayed himself in the face before, and taken a windblown puff from someone else practicing on an expired can. Bear spray, Phffft! That's no deterrent. He's got bear spray antibodies flowing throw his system at this very moment. You'll have to do better than that to escape with your life.

If you are on your toes though, you might point and tell him the pit toilet is that way. This will buy you a few minutes for sure, but he will just be angrier when he returns realizing he forgot his toilet paper. At this point, he would probably force the group into a session of Scatman yoga. Believe me you, nobody wants to see or participate in that.

Not even the rye wit of the elusive @Rockskipper will save you. Oh sure, she might have something interesting to say, a joke to tell, some sarcasm to float his way, but the Scatman will have a retort in a couple of days or weeks. :thumbsup: This will just prolong your agony I'm afraid.

And @Outdoor_Fool, why isn't the Scatman on your chart? :)He is clearly above your drowning category. And that is in Yellowstone alone. Geeze, do I have to supply you with the numbers? I thought they were common knowledge. :D

So everyone, just ask yourselves, do you know anyone who has seen the Scatman in the wild and lived to tell the story? I didn't think so. (@Jackson may pipe in here, but that is only because he hikes faster than the Scatman.) :mad: :)

And I do believe that those are @TractorDoc's bones you can see at the bottom of Rustic Geyser, all because he didn't have enough circus peanuts! ;)

So, are you thinking of changing your upcoming backcountry plans for this spring, summer and fall to avoid the perils of the kilted one?

I'd be interested to hear how you all would handle such a nasty adversary.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Truth be told, I'm enjoying reading this thread.
 
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Outdoor_Fool

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@scatman Time to cancel my Yellowstone plans for the summer. I had no idea.

If you leave no witnesses, it is difficult getting the casualty numbers out. But don't worry, you are still on my "chart".

I'd handle this adversary the same way I handle all of them. I invite them backpacking for a week. I never hear from them after that. :thinking:
 

Bob

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Bears, moose and bison! C'mon, you can do better than that. What about the scariest animal in the backcountry today? That's right, The Scatman! Slow afoot, permanent scowl, electric hair, mumbles to himself, irresistible white legs, and a bit ripe if you approach too close to him. He is every backpackers worst nightmare.

If you see him facedown next to the trail, be sure and give him a wide berth. If not, he will reach out and grab you by the ankle, throw you to the ground and make off with your food bag (and any appealing water bottles). :devil:

He tends to be hungry, really hungry and angry too. Hangry as they say! You know the kind of angry, like @Bob rolling him through a patch of prickly pear cacti in one of the canyons of the Wind Rivers. :D

Not impressed you say. Well, imagine the scat rolling into your campsite and stomping out your campfire while wearing his fireproof kilt! Or perhaps, at sloth speed, shimmying up the bear pole to make off with all your goodies (He's not smart enough to untie the knots of your chords). Don't try and hide in your tent either. He'll just saunter on over to it, and with his weak left knee, lean over then collapse on top of you. With his portly body, you'll never get him off. A slow and agonizing death to be sure. You'd be wishing you'd pitched that tent/tarp next to a widowmaker instead.

I know what you're thinking, "I've got my bear spray, let's see how he handle this." Well let me tell you right now, he's sprayed himself in the face before, and taken a windblown puff from someone else practicing on an expired can. Bear spray, Phffft! That's no deterrent. He's got bear spray antibodies flowing throw his system at this very moment. You'll have to do better than that to escape with your life.

If you are on your toes though, you might point and tell him the pit toilet is that way. This will buy you a few minutes for sure, but he will just be angrier when he returns realizing he he forgot his toilet paper. At this point, he would probably force the group into a session of Scatman yoga. Believe me you, nobody wants to see or participate in that.

Not even the rye wit of the elusive @Rockskipper will save you. Oh sure, she might have something interesting to say, a joke to tell, some sarcasm to float his way, but the Scatman will have a retort in a couple of days or weeks. :thumbsup: This will just prolong your agony I'm afraid.

And @Outdoor_Fool, why isn't the Scatman on your chart? :)He is clearly above your drowning category. And that is in Yellowstone alone. Geeze, do I have to supply you with the numbers? I thought they were common knowledge. :D

So everyone, just ask yourselves, do you know anyone who has seen the Scatman in the wild and lived to tell the story? I didn't think so. (@Jackson may pipe in here, but that is only because he hikes faster than the Scatman.) :mad: :)

And I do believe that those are @TractorDoc's bones you can see at the bottom of Rustic Geyser, all because he didn't have enough circus peanuts! ;)

So, are you thinking of changing your upcoming backcountry plans for this spring, summer and fall to avoid the perils of the kilted one?

I'd be interested to hear how you all would handle such a nasty adversary.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Truth be told, I'm enjoying reading this thread.
What happen.... Too much snow at once at your house....
 
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