Article: Crisis in our national parks

[Perry]

I worry more about those who are “inspired” by social media to activities they have no business doing. They see the instant gratification of bagging a peak or navigating a back county slot canyon with little understanding of the risks and the need to be prepared.


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[Jeffrey Chandler]

I worry more about those who are “inspired” by social media to activities they have no business doing. They see the instant gratification of bagging a peak or navigating a back county slot canyon with little understanding of the risks and need to be prepared.


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exactly. Like my issue isn't necessarily with "many people" because honestly there have always been "many people" and it's just getting worse, but with irresponsible use from those people. I don't mind if more people want to get into slot canyons or into the backcountry (especially since those are permit based) but I do mind when people want to do it without knowing what they are doing. Like seeing children going up mount oberlin in glacier when, while it's not very hard or scary, it's still way worse than the vast majority of trails, but people hear "oh it's easy" and think "oh its easy for me, not for mountains"

 

[Kmatjhwy]

Now was thinking about this today and decided to post some more on this. Next month in December will be turning 62, with 40 years hiking and wandering in the wilds here in Western North American. Just some thoughts regarding this issue, front country versus backcountry.

Now I have seen the front country in our National Parks and Forests just getting worse and worse thru the years. But seemingly less people in the backcountry. Like I said earlier, I live here in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. When I first went hiking, how little did I know. But I learned as I went thru the years. Several years ago I asked a friend who works and manages a local outdoor gear shop in town. I asked him on what was the bast selling backpack. His reply was it was a daypack, not a multiple night overnight backpack. This struck me as sad for this is all I think about.

A couple of years ago one spring, was in the Soda Fork Meadows talking with an outfitter who was there. He was guiding in some bear hunters. And he also was several years older then me at the time. We got talking on this issue. I remarked how now days how little people I saw in the backcountry. He remarked that he noticed the same thing. He then said that his outfitting business was 40% down from normal. Just less clients these days. He then remarked what will happen 40 or say 50 years from now when people like this outfitter and myself who has spent a lifetime wandering in the wilds are dead, gone, and buried. What will those people and generations do at that time as concerning all this wild country. Will they continue to preserve or not?

Some years ago was way back in the headwaters of the Yellowstone River in the Teton Wilderness. I ran across a guy horseback riding all by his lonesome. I had seen him several other times riding by himself. And we got talking. He said he was a son of an outfitter and grew up back in this country back in the 60's. He said back then there were all kinds of people, hunters and other horsepack parties, all the time going up and down these trails back in here. He said it was kinda like a freeway with people going all over. But on that day it was just him and myself in all that wild country.

Have seen places in both like Zion NP, or Yellowstone, or Grand Teton where there is a jewel of a place right near the road. But because it is not the main point to see marked on the map, everyone just passes on by. Know of a spring down the road from the narrows which have often visited and this place being right next to the road with a little walkway and everything. Everytime in Zion NP I stop here awhile with just sitting and enjoying the place. But how many times I have been here and with this place right right next to the road, never never never have I seen a person here when I have been here. But a shortways up the road at the riverside narrows trail are just how many gobs and gobs of tourists everywhere.

Just how much less people in this backcountry, then some years ago. Now days us older generations who have grown up with the wilds are getting older and one by one passing away. And now there is all of these young people around with always always on their techno devices and can't get away from them. Then I meet how many Mountain Bikers (locals) who want to do away with all wilderness for they can ride their bikes in all of these areas. So many these days are soooo out of touch it seems to me. Then in the National Parks these days are just all all all the people. And it isn't just the locals, but people that might be from anywhere on the planet, including India and China. And these people you will never see in the deep backcountry. But they might go on a small hike on some trail in a National Park. Yes we are all greenhorns at some point in our lives, like myself the very first few years in my hiking. But some of these people being all connected with their techno devices, living in a modern world, don't know the first things about living and wandering in the wilds it seems. And they now days inundate the front country in our parks and forests bigtime. Have heard how now days the parks and forests have to reallocate money and personnel from the backcountry to the front country to accommodate these people. And do think it is just going to get worse bigtime.

But out there way back in those deep wilds are places like they always have been. How seldom is it that any person wanders into those deep special places these days. These places to me ... This Is The Real World!!! Do think these way back hidden special places are wilder now then some years ago. As we have so seemingly divorced ourselves from the wilds and each succeeding generation is seemingly more divorced from the wilds then the last one. It has come to my mind a sad state of affairs for all I want to experience my remaining days in these deep and special back wild areas. See and experience how it always has been. But for these front country folks from who knows where ... do feel sorry for them ... for just clinging to the front country, clinging to their fears - their techno devices - and their modern society consumer desires being in the system ... what will they miss bigtime. For myself, those deep deep back wilds is where it is at.

Just my thoughts for whatever it is worth. Give me those deep wilds any day and anytime. Wishing Everyone the Best!

But being in Jackson

 

[Rockskipper]

Well, with people posting videos about how dangerous the animals (specially moose) are, fewer people want to seemingly risk their lives in the backcountry.

Reminds me of my brother and a friend getting off the Silverton train to go up into the Needles (the train will make a special stop there at the bridge for backpackers). As they got off, a bunch of tourists on the train asked where they were going, and one woman kept asking, "What about the wild animals?" over and over, genuinely concerned for their well-being.

 

[Kmatjhwy]

Rockskipper, I hear what you are saying. So many people are so afraid of the wild animals this day and age. But as for myself personally, I Trust Grizzlies More Than People. And will say it again for emphasis ... I Trust Grizzlies These Days More Than People! Why you might ask. Well, how often have people stabbed me in the back, dragged me thru the mud for the slightest of reason, over dominate me, over criticize on the smallest of things, or how many things that people do. But Not Not Once have I ever ever been stabbed in the back by a Grizzly or dragged thru the mud by some irate Grizzly, etc. Or never had a problem with a Moose for do try to give them their space if I can. The wild animals have personally given me the most amazing and incredible experiences I have had in this life.

Have a short story ... Onetime walking down the trail, went thru some brush and made noise in doing so. Then went around the corner and here was an older woman standing with her arms crossed looking like she was just completely petrified with fear. And then she said, " I thought you were going to be a Bear ."

 

[Rockskipper]

Homo insapiens are definitely the most dangerous of critters. And like Cactus Ed said, what other animals besides us and cows piss in their own pond? Cows don’t know any better, they were bred into their oblivion by us humans.

 

[Reef&Ruins]

I'm a little late to the thread, but we just returned from a couple of days in Moab for Thanksgiving holiday. Even though Delicate Arch is super awesome to see, we didn't visit it. Why? Because we could see from the road (not the access road in, but the main park road) the "ants" aka humans all the way out there. We had permits for the Firey Furnace and so we went there instead. Much fewer people because access is controlled. Earlier in the trip we had gone out to do part of the Devil's Garden hike (too late in the day to do it all) and once we got past Landscape Arch, much fewer people. On Black Friday we had planned to go in and do Park Avenue before leaving for our enormously long trip home, but as on Thanksgiving day the line up in to the park looked to be about a 25-30 minute wait so bailed and did something else. We also noticed that during this trip, and others to Arches and elsewhere that after 3 pm and before 10 am there's also fewer people. So even if there are a lot of people in the park, they are concentrated in high use spots, but there are still lots of other places in the park (and times) to go.

 

[gnwatts]

There will always be idiots doing idiotic things. Humans have always excelled at this. It does not matter where they are, an elevator, car or on a trail somewhere. Why should I give a shit if someone is tuning out with their phone on a trail somewhere. As long as they don't diminish the experience I am enjoying. It's their loss.
I know it's obvious, but if you want solitude don't visit Arches (or any other park), especially on a holiday.

passing away. And now there is all of these young people around with always always on their techno devices and can't get away from them.

Isn't a GPS unit a "techno device"? I just turned 60 and we used one. It was fun!
But I prefer reading a map and getting lost.

 

[Reef&Ruins]

As a follow up... in the past I have been to Double Arch at Arches and my son and I were walking up through it to look over the "wall" at the back. Some photographer, who had obviously a) had too much grumpy pills that morning, b) was tired of waiting for everyone to get out of his perfect shot, and c) probably had had some excess caffeine because he seemed super jumpy hollered at us to please move out of his picture because he had been waiting forever for no one to be in it. I was so flabbergasted that I took my son's hand and walked away but what I probably should have said was "hey buddy, all of us here have paid our (at the time) $20 admission fee so either take your picture with us all in it or come back later" (when the light would have been better anyways).

 

[IntrepidXJ]

I know it's obvious, but if you want solitude don't visit Arches (or any other park), especially on a holiday.

Actually, Arches is still quite pleasant on Christmas Day, although it has steadily been getting busier the past few years. Once it's starts getting too busy, I'll find somewhere else to spend Christmas.

 

[Rockskipper]

I lived in Moab for a long time and used to go to Arches a lot to hike in the winter and would maybe see a half-dozen people, if that. Have spent many beautiful days at Delicate Arch totally alone. I sold my house there about 8 years ago and each time I go back to the area it's exponentially worse with people. I have friends who have been there for years who are leaving because they feel the entire area's been ruined. Last time I went there and was in City Market it looked like locusts had gone through, and it took a half-hour to get through town. I've seen it happen here in Colorado, but Moab really took off and went downwhill fast. A lot of people blame the tourism board there and the state's Mighty FIve campaign, but I think it's that plus social media. I love the redrock desert but now go other places not so near Mob, I mean Moab.

 

[ImNotDedYet]

Having just gotten back from Cedar Mesa and the southern portion of Bears Ears, I could not have been more surprised at how few people were down there. I saw three people in three hikes down Shieks and Slickhorn Canyons. There were always good camping spots available in Valley of the gods. I'm so used to the Wilderness Areas and Parks here in Colorado that I was literally shocked.

Having said that, I was speaking to a fellow photographer at the Needles Overlook and he said there were 100 people at Horseshoe Bend to photograph sunrise. To say social media is not having an impact, I think is wishful thinking. The original article even mentions Horseshoe Bend as an example.

 

[IntrepidXJ]

Having just gotten back from Cedar Mesa and the southern portion of Bears Ears, I could not have been more surprised at how few people were down there.

I was there over the holiday weekend and was surprised at how many people were parked at the popular trailheads these days. It's definitely gotten busier since the Monument was originally created and put this area on the map (the line to pickup a permit at Kane Gulch in April was pretty ridiculous). It's still easy to get away from them there still, as long as you don't want to see House on Fire or The Citadel, etc..

 

[Titans]

I was there over the holiday weekend and was surprised at how many people were parked at the popular trailheads these days. It's definitely gotten busier since the Monument was originally created and put this area on the map (the line to pickup a permit at Kane Gulch in April was pretty ridiculous). It's still easy to get away from them there still, as long as you don't want to see House on Fire or The Citadel, etc..

@ImNotDedYet and @IntrepidXJ :
I was surprised to see about 10 cars parked between the two trailheads for Moon House ruins, Cedar Mesa on Saturday Nov 10. Is that normal for a winter weekend? The TH is not exactly right next to the road.

 

[IntrepidXJ]

@ImNotDedYet and @IntrepidXJ :
I was surprised to see about 10 cars parked between the two trailheads for Moon House ruins, Cedar Mesa on Saturday Nov 10. Is that normal for a winter weekend? The TH is not exactly right next to the road.

It's becoming the norm for the popular locations, although the 10th was part of a holiday weekend. They did need to limit the number of people who can go there with a permit system already.

 

[Nick]

@ImNotDedYet and @IntrepidXJ :
I was surprised to see about 10 cars parked between the two trailheads for Moon House ruins, Cedar Mesa on Saturday Nov 10. Is that normal for a winter weekend? The TH is not exactly right next to the road.

It's becoming the norm for the popular locations, although the 10th was part of a holiday weekend. They did need to limit the number of people who can go there with a permit system already.

We almost did Moonhouse the day after Thanksgiving and there were at least 10 cars between the two that day as well. More I think.

 

[LarryBoy]

I did moonhouse on a weekday in early November and only saw 2 people.

Also, the reason the Monument was needed originally is that "security by obscurity" no longer worked (although, given the rampant looting over the years, one might argue that security by obscurity never worked. So now we have a place that's even more on the forefront of people's minds and there aren't any protections in place for it. Worst of both worlds.

 

[Jackson]

I did moonhouse on a weekday in early November and only saw 2 people.

Also, the reason the Monument was needed originally is that "security by obscurity" no longer worked (although, given the rampant looting over the years, one might argue that security by obscurity never worked. So now we have a place that's even more on the forefront of people's minds and there aren't any protections in place for it. Worst of both worlds.

Genuine question. Did the monument designation actually change anything regarding visitation, permits, and recreational use in general? It didn't seem to, as far as I'm aware, so did it really add any protective measures in that regard? I'm aware of the halt on oil and gas leasing, which is certainly a plus.

 

[Nick]

Genuine question. Did the monument designation actually change anything regarding visitation, permits, and recreational use in general? It didn't seem to, as far as I'm aware, so did it really add any protective measures in that regard? I'm aware of the halt on oil and gas leasing, which is certainly a plus.

There has been a massive increase in visitation since the monument designation. I don't think it really had that much to do with it being a monument as much as it had to do with the subsequent fight and related publicity. I have no statistics to back that up, but I am 100% confident that it has pretty much blown up compared to pre-BENM.

 

[o2bav8]

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