Arches and Canyonlands National Parks Accepting Comments on Proposed Fee Increases for Backcountry Operations

Rockskipper

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Actually, Kent Frost and his wife Fern were also instrumental in Canyonlands becoming a park. They took the first 4x4 tours into the Maze. I went camping with Kent once and wish I'd recorded some of his stories. Classic.
 

IntrepidXJ

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Well, I wasn't writing a complete history of the park, just providing enough facts that I could quickly backup with a link to make my point...
 

futurafree

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Actually, Kent Frost and his wife Fern were also instrumental in Canyonlands becoming a park. They took the first 4x4 tours into the Maze. I went camping with Kent once and wish I'd recorded some of his stories. Classic.
Fern as in Fern's Nipple in Capitol Reef??
My general opinion has been that I wished only people with disabilities and the elderly could use 4X4's in NP backcountry or horses in designated Wilderness Areas, but I'll try to be more open-minded and consider the history and the states these parks are located in.
 

Rockskipper

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I don't think the Fern I met would want a feature to be known as her nipple, but I don't know who it's named after. Last I heard, it's illegal for anyone to use a motorized vehicle in a wilderness area, even in the event of a fire. And I doubt if many disabled and elderly people could ride a horse into the backcountry.
 

IntrepidXJ

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There are plenty of parts of the canyon country I would never have seen if I didn't have a 4x4. I do yearn for the days when your rig wasn't a statement about who you were but was more of a tool to get into the backcountry.

I agree. At least Canyonlands still doesn't allow SxS's and ATV's, no matter how hard Utah tries to get them in there!
 

LarryBoy

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Exactly. I'm confused why the monster trucks are allowed. I'm not familiar with similar situations in other national parks. I've googled this before to see if it was grandfathered in as a compromise when the park was created, but I didn't find any info.
I'm okay with people enjoying the outdoors with vehicles, at least on sanctioned routes. I just think that vehicles have a bigger impact on the landscape and thus should shoulder the lion's share of the cost.
 

Rockskipper

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A little OT, but as for Fern's Nipple, there's a feature in NW Colorado called Maggie's Nipple that was named for Maggie Baggs, a rancher (she and her husband were the namesakes of Baggs, WY) and well-known character. Some of my greats were friends of hers and the story they told was that Maggie pistol-whipped the cowboy who named it after her when she found out. He probably thought he was doing her a favor. :)
 

Rockskipper

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I'm okay with people enjoying the outdoors with vehicles, at least on sanctioned routes. I just think that vehicles have a bigger impact on the landscape and thus should shoulder the lion's share of the cost.
I would love to drive the CDT. ;)
 

LarryBoy

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How in hellsbells could one actually drive the CDT? On a dirtbike?
yep. A lot of the trail through Colorado is of mtn bike quality, which also tends to attract dirt bikes, even when they're formally banned.

Also there's a lot of the CDT that's on dirt roads, so you deal with cars there.
 

b.stark

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How in hellsbells could one actually drive the CDT? On a dirtbike?

Another option would be to look at the Great Divide bike route or the Tour Divide route (they are pretty similar if I recall). I think you could make a driving route with those as a baseline. That's not exactly the CDT but pretty close, or at least as close as you'll probably get using a vehicle and staying off pavement as much as possible.
 

Rockskipper

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Actually, I was kidding about driving the CDT, though I have mountain biked a few similar (and legal) stretches. As one who prefers quiet in the backcountry, it would create massive cognitive dissonance.
 
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John Morrow

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Here's an interesting anecdote:

We were finishing our fifteen mile (foot) approach into the Maze midway down the Maze Overlook Trail. Day 1 of 6. 2 NPS Rangers were climbing back to their Jeep at the overlook above. They informed us not to set up a tent in the canyon within view of the 4x4 Campsite overnight, and thus, ruin their view.....
That, and the headlights repeatedly seen, really made me feel that the deep-wilderness vibe reputation the Maze has was overblown, however beautiful.
70 miles of hiking loop could be covered in 1/3 of the hiking trail mileage from 4x4 parking. Do I have an issue with it? Not really I suppose. I knew the 4x4 trails were there. And I feel thankful and fortunate that the Salt Creek Jeep Trail was cut off at Peekaboo and not where 4x4s originally could travel.
The established compromise in this case is acceptable to me. Thankfully, no side by sides.
 

IntrepidXJ

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They informed us not to set up a tent in the canyon within view of the 4x4 Campsite overnight, and thus, ruin their view.....
That used to be a regulation on the permit for backcountry camping in The Maze, but I'm not sure if it's still on there?

Edit- Yep, it's still on there:

Jasper Canyon is closed to ALL human entry. Pete's Mesa and the areas below and visible from the Maze Overlook are closed to camping.
 

IntrepidXJ

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That, and the headlights repeatedly seen, really made me feel that the deep-wilderness vibe reputation the Maze has was overblown, however beautiful.
I've never considered The Maze a deep-wilderness, just more of a remote backcountry area that can be a bit difficult to get to, but maybe that's because it's always been a 4x4 destination for me...
 

RyanP

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Here's an interesting anecdote:

We were finishing our fifteen mile (foot) approach into the Maze midway down the Maze Overlook Trail. Day 1 of 6. 2 NPS Rangers were climbing back to their Jeep at the overlook above. They informed us not to set up a tent in the canyon within view of the 4x4 Campsite overnight, and thus, ruin their view.....
That, and the headlights repeatedly seen, really made me feel that the deep-wilderness vibe reputation the Maze has was overblown, however beautiful.
70 miles of hiking loop could be covered in 1/3 of the hiking trail mileage from 4x4 parking. Do I have an issue with it? Not really I suppose. I knew the 4x4 trails were there. And I feel thankful and fortunate that the Salt Creek Jeep Trail was cut off at Peekaboo and not where 4x4s originally could travel.
The established compromise in this case is acceptable to me. Thankfully, no side by sides.
Yeah, when I checked in last month, the ranger definitely made this rule clear. I agree about the remoteness/wildness/solitude of the Maze being overrated as well. I still sure love it though!
 
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