Arches and Canyonlands National Parks Accepting Comments on Proposed Fee Increases for Backcountry Operations

IntrepidXJ

ADVENTR
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
3,392
From here: https://www.nps.gov/cany/learn/news/news04262021.htm


--------------------------------------


News Release Date: April 26, 2021
Contact: Angie Richman, (435) 719-2140

Contact: Keri Nelson, (435) 719-2143

Contact: Park Information Line, (435) 719-2313



MOAB, UT— Arches and Canyonlands national parks are seeking public feedback on proposed fee changes for Fiery Furnace tickets in Arches and backcountry and river permits in Canyonlands. The proposed changes would allow us to cover staffing and operational costs and improve our ability to support essential and effective operations and visitor services.

Arches:
To recover the cost of operating Fiery Furnace self-guided and ranger-led tours, Arches National Park proposes to increase the per-person ticket fee for both tours. Self-guided ticket fees have not increased since 1999 and ranger-led ticket fees have not increased since the early 2000s. The proposed fee increase will help the park recover the cost of supporting this special experience at the park.

Current Fee Structure:

  • Self-guided tickets are $6 per adult and $3 per child and those with senior or access passes.
  • Ranger-led tickets are $16 per adult and $8 per child and those with senior or access passes.
Arches proposes the following fee changes:

  • Increasing self-guided tickets to $10 per person, with a single fee for each reservation type. This means we will no longer have a child’s fee or accept the access or senior pass for a half-price ticket.
  • Stop offering a child, access or senior discount for ranger-led tickets. Any person, regardless of age or pass type, will be charged $16 per ticket.
Canyonlands:
Canyonlands National Park has seen a 34% increase in overnight backcountry use and a 60% increase in overall park visitation since 2013, which has caused the need for more maintenance work and more park staff.

Current fee structure:

  • All land- and river-based backcountry permit reservations cost $36. Of this fee, $6 goes back to recreation.gov, which handles our reservation services.
  • In addition, we require $20 per person for all river permits.
Canyonlands proposes the following fee changes:

  • Requiring $5 per person per night for land-based backcountry permits.
  • Increasing river permits to $25 per person.
The proposed fee increases would allow us to hire more park personnel who can help in our visitor centers and on the rivers. These staff are uniquely able to inform visitors about resource protection, provide quality visitor services and enhance visitor safety. Park personnel who can provide quality educational information based on their first-hand knowledge of the area’s backcountry and wilderness are essential to preserve the park and improve visitor experiences.

Canyonlands and Arches national parks are proposing that all fee changes go into effect by Nov. 10, 2021, depending on the information we receive during this public comment period and the operational requirements of implementing these changes.

The NPS is accepting public comments on the potential fee increases from April 26, 2021 through May 25, 2021 on the NPS Planning, Environment, & Public Comment (PEPC) website at: https://parkplanning.nps.gov/SEUGpermitfeeincreases

or through mail at:
SEUG Superintendent
ATTN: Proposed Fee Increase
2282 SW Resource Blvd. Moab, UT 84532.

Thank you for your interest in this issue. Please reach out to Angie Richman at (435) 719-2140 or Keri Nelson at (435) 719-2143 if you have any questions about this proposal.

www.nps.gov


About the National Park Service. More than 20,000 National Park Service employees care for America's 423 national parks and work with communities across the nation to help preserve local history and create close-to-home recreational opportunities. Learn more at www.nps.gov, and on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube.
 

IntrepidXJ

ADVENTR
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
3,392
I'm curious why there are no fees for day-use permits on the White Rim and Elephant Hill and they aren't proposing any increases there?
 

Udink

Disappointed, passed over.
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
1,529
"and improve visitor experiences"

I think one more ranger to check out my shit at Mineral Bottom before paddling on downstream to Spanish Bottom will actually diminish my visitor experience.
 
Last edited:

John Morrow

Member
Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
707
Regarding overnight backpacking: Does $5 per person per night replace the $30 flat fee or is it in addition to? I can support per night fees but not both.
When no one wants to pay taxes, these things should be expected.
Not that I have a major body of experience but I've never seen a Ranger in the backcountry and actually would like to once in a while.
 

IntrepidXJ

ADVENTR
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
3,392
Regarding overnight backpacking: Does $5 per person per night replace the $30 flat fee or is it in addition to? I can support per night fees but not both.
When no one wants to pay taxes, these things should be expected.
Not that I have a major body of experience but I've never seen a Ranger in the backcountry and actually would like to once in a while.

That's a good question. It does not mention the $30 fee in the proposed change, so I think it's just $5/night per person, but that should definitely be clarified.
 

WasatchWill

Ready For More
.
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,572
For what it's worth, in obtaining a backcountry permit at Capitol Reef for this past weekend, I was informed that a review is currently in progress there for their current backcountry management plan, procedures, and operations and subject to some changes in the near future. What that means, they couldn't clarify specifics for, or wouldn't, but it makes me curious if they'll be rolling out a proposal for some sort of fee there as well. It is quite amazing they are currently free and they are pretty liberal with allowing you to camp where you want so long as it meets certain LNT standards. I really enjoy that freedom and not being limited to designated campsites. For a long time, and I'd dare say even now, even with all the visitation to the park there, demand for backcountry permits is probably still pretty low there, relatively speaking (with perhaps an exception for Halls Creek), albeit a little more now than perhaps 5 to 10 years ago. I can't imagine them installing designated sites, but could see them starting up a fee system there as well.
 

IntrepidXJ

ADVENTR
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
3,392
For what it's worth, in obtaining a backcountry permit at Capitol Reef for this past weekend, I was informed that a review is currently in progress there for their current backcountry management plan, procedures, and operations and subject to some changes in the near future. What that means, they couldn't clarify specifics for, or wouldn't, but it makes me curious if they'll be rolling out a proposal for some sort of fee there as well. It is quite amazing they are currently free and they are pretty liberal with allowing you to camp where you want so long as it meets certain LNT standards. I really enjoy that freedom and not being limited to designated campsites. For a long time, and I'd dare say even now, even with all the visitation to the park there, demand for backcountry permits is probably still pretty low there, relatively speaking, albeit a little more now than perhaps 5 to 10 years ago. I can't imagine them installing designated sites, but could see them starting up a fee system there as well.
I just wish you could get the permits ahead of time without having to go to the Visitor Center while they are open. When I went last spring just as things were shutting down for COVID they put out a self-service permit box for a little while and I was able to get my own permit late at night when the VC was closed and then get an early start on my hike the next morning. It was great!
 

WasatchWill

Ready For More
.
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,572
I just wish you could get the permits ahead of time without having to go to the Visitor Center while they are open. When I went last spring just as things were shutting down for COVID they put out a self-service permit box for a little while and I was able to get my own permit late at night when the VC was closed and then get an early start on my hike the next morning. It was great!

I agree. I think they've been a little more lenient with that as of late though. That is, at least now they will at least let you get a permit for date that isn't same day. In the past you had to start your hike the same day, but now you can get a permit for up to a year in advance, but yes, still back to being in person only during operating hours. My guess is that they want to be able to ensure you understand the rules and regulations with respect to how you choose a campsite, whether you understand how to navigate with kryto soil, and how to handle your waste, which I can respect. When it comes so self-service, some folks may just fill out what they need to fill out and not care enough to read up on the rules and regulations. I've see plenty of folks ignore signs at trailheads there saying no dogs on the trails, but they still take their dogs out on trail, off leash and everything.

What I'd really like to see implemented is an online system where you submit your itinerary, then it has you go through a little LNT course, then put your through a quiz that you have to pass before it generates a permit for you to print out for your chosen dates at the cost of a small online convenience fee if necessary.
 

futurafree

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
39
I have no problem paying more for the experience and upkeep. But...
For Canyonlands, I wish they'd shift much of the burden for the necessary revenue to the monster trucks that cruise through the Maze and Needles backcountry. Maybe I'm just a grouch.
For Capitol Reef, they really need to start collecting fees for all front-country visitors. It was incredibly crowded a few weeks ago and there was only a small sign for self-pay once you drove fairly deep into the park. The ranger told me it's completely on the honor system and they don't check dashboards. Bizarre. They could make $10k/day if they just charged like most parks. Have they never collected fees at a drive-thru booth, or is this just a remnant of covid's early days?
 

WasatchWill

Ready For More
.
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,572
I have no problem paying more for the experience and upkeep. But...
For Canyonlands, I wish they'd shift much of the burden for the necessary revenue to the monster trucks that cruise through the Maze and Needles backcountry. Maybe I'm just a grouch.
For Capitol Reef, they really need to start collecting fees for all front-country visitors. It was incredibly crowded a few weeks ago and there was only a small sign for self-pay once you drove fairly deep into the park. The ranger told me it's completely on the honor system and they don't check dashboards. Bizarre. They could make $10k/day if they just charged like most parks. Have they never collected fees at a drive-thru booth, or is this just a remnant of covid's early days?
If nothing else, they should post a ranger at the scenic drive on weekends and holidays to verify passes. I don't know if they could do much with access to the stuff along the highway, because, well, it's a state highway. They could require passes for parking at trailheads, but it gets so busy that most end up having to park on the side of the highway anyway, pass or no pass.
 

futurafree

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
39
If nothing else, they should post a ranger at the scenic drive on weekends and holidays to verify passes. I don't know if they could do much with access to the stuff along the highway, because, well, it's a state highway. They could require passes for parking at trailheads, but it gets so busy that most end up having to park on the side of the highway anyway, pass or no pass.
Yosemite makes everyone pay $35 to drive on the state highway that's the only route through the mountains for many miles. Very different parks in very different states, I guess. I did most of your Traverse route a few weeks ago, and the rangers said they'd never heard of anyone doing it (which seemed odd) so I can't imagine they have much overuse of their backcountry.
 

Parma

@parma26
.
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
725
I'm curious why there are no fees for day-use permits on the White Rim and Elephant Hill and they aren't proposing any increases there?
A day use permit to drive Elephant Hill Road does cost $6. Not sure if that's a change since the move to the recreation.gov booking system.
 

futurafree

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
39
I kinda think that it should cost $36 to drive Elephant Hill Rd and $6 to walk the trails in the backcountry, not the converse.

Oh, and the rec.gov pound of flesh should be $0.60, not $6.00. No-bid contracts for the lose.
Exactly. I'm confused why the monster trucks are allowed. I'm not familiar with similar situations in other national parks. I've googled this before to see if it was grandfathered in as a compromise when the park was created, but I didn't find any info.
 

IntrepidXJ

ADVENTR
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
3,392
Exactly. I'm confused why the monster trucks are allowed. I'm not familiar with similar situations in other national parks. I've googled this before to see if it was grandfathered in as a compromise when the park was created, but I didn't find any info.
4x4's were the historical way to access Canyonlands. Without them the Park might never have been preserved in the first place.

Read up on Bates Wilson and how he brought people into Canyonlands via Jeep to persuade them to make it a National Park.

 

futurafree

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
39
4x4's were the historical way to access Canyonlands. Without them the Park might never have been preserved in the first place.

Read up on Bates Wilson and how he brought people into Canyonlands via Jeep to persuade them to make it a National Park.

What an absolute legend. Pics of these people should be on our currency. Thanks for the link.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
Waynee-ack Arches and Canyonlands National Parks Hiking & Camping 11
gnwatts BLM Oil and Gas lease auction, Arches, Canyonlands, Bears Ears etc. General Discussion 5
zionsky Arches & Canyonlands closed due to snow General Discussion 12
Brian Skibbe Moab, Arches NP, Canyonlands NP. May 2017 Hiking & Camping 3
Nick Canyonlands+Arches, October 2010 Hiking & Camping 0
Bill Arches Canyonlands 10-2012 Hiking & Camping 11
Yvonne Arches and Canyonlands, June 2011 Hiking & Camping 10
Nick From Arches to Canyonlands Hiking & Camping 10
Tyler Moab/Canyonlands/Arches Feburary 2012 Hiking & Camping 16
C Arches area walking in the tourist spots Everything Else 2
Noun Sequitur Arches + Snow Hiking & Camping 6
Jammer Zion to Arches Hike Backpacking 26
Scott Chandler Arches Tackling Visitation General Discussion 8
tomcat32 Rattlesnake Arches- Fruita, Colorado Hiking & Camping 3
IntrepidXJ Arches National Park Night Closure Trip Planning 2
Outdoors24 Arches National Park closed to backpacking? General Discussion 12
DrNed Arches Named Prettiest Wintertime NP General Discussion 2
Bridgette Primitive Camping Near Arches Trip Planning 2
Dustin Gent slot canyons and/or arches General Discussion 4
Ross Six days in The Maze (with some Arches to warm up) Hiking & Camping 4
Tater Head Three days in Arches... Trip Planning 10
IntrepidXJ Christmas in Arches 2014 Hiking & Camping 9
Desertrat Arches National Park December 2014 Hiking & Camping 3
DrNed Arches / Moab Off The Beaten Trail Trip Planning 2
Nick Arches Balanced Rock Toppled! General Discussion 11
IntrepidXJ Christmas in Arches Hiking & Camping 5
IntrepidXJ Christmas in Arches 2012 Hiking & Camping 10
IntrepidXJ Rattlesnake Canyon Arches Hiking & Camping 6
Yellowstone 1 Arches National Park March 2012 Hiking & Camping 10
Tyler Arches National Park & Moab area camping March 2006 Hiking & Camping 4
IntrepidXJ Exploring the Arches Backcountry Hiking & Camping 0
IntrepidXJ Exploring the Arches Backcountry Hiking & Camping 0
IntrepidXJ Christmas in Arches 2011 Hiking & Camping 2
IntrepidXJ Album Arches & Natural Bridges Photography 234
IntrepidXJ Exploring the Arches Backcountry Hiking & Camping 6
angeedraper Canyonlands - Needles 2 Night Backpacking (April 29-May1) Backpacking 0
J Canyonlands Needles District simple backpack with a close friend April 1-3, 2021 Backpacking 2
Laura V. Bears in Salt Creek Canyon, Canyonlands Trip Planning 76
IntrepidXJ Canyonlands Permits going to Recreation.gov General Discussion 4
J Family hike in the Maze in June? (Canyonlands / Moab) Am I crazy? Trip Planning 5
Parma Pssst, don't tell anyone but Canyonlands is opening up General Discussion 3
DouginGJCO Hiking &/or backpacking partner for Canyonlands Natl Park and nearby Noobs: Introduce yourself! 0
OwenM Canyonlands in winter/off-season Trip Planning 19
chandlerwest Monument Basin - Canyonlands NP - Not enough hours in a day. Hiking & Camping 6
JBPHXAZ Canyonlands Needles Backpacking Suggestions Trip Planning 8
P Salt creek in Canyonlands Trip Planning 13
Parma Missing Person In Canyonlands General Discussion 2
U Maze District of Canyonlands question Trip Planning 15
M Water in Canyonlands Salt Creek early April? Trip Planning 11
Benjamin Hayden Looking for advice on Maze District, Canyonlands Trip Planning 1

Similar threads

Don't like ads? Become a BCP Supporting Member and kiss them all goodbye. Click here for more info.

Top