2001: A Space Odyssey in Utah

LarryBoy

Hiker Trash
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Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
2,377
@LarryBoy I don't think it is a slippery slope:

"an idea or course of action which will lead to something unacceptable, wrong, or disastrous."
Nothing unacceptable, wrong or disastrous will come of this.
He's arguing that to condone the (illegal) removal of the monolith means that, logically speaking, we must also condone burning of historic structures, ripping out the Angels Landing chains, etc. That's classic slippery slope fallacy right there.
 

gnwatts

Member
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Joined
May 19, 2012
Messages
1,790
@Jackson , is it ok to place a chain handrail in Zion just because the government "lawfully" does it? Do you obey all laws?
I don't.
 

gnwatts

Member
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Joined
May 19, 2012
Messages
1,790
He's arguing that to condone the (illegal) removal of the monolith means that, logically speaking, we must also condone burning of historic structures, ripping out the Angels Landing chains, etc. That's classic slippery slope fallacy right there.
I don't believe that is logical at all.
 

Jackson

I like to go outside.
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Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
2,264
@Jackson , is it ok to place a chain handrail in Zion just because the government "lawfully" does it? Do you obey all laws?
I don't.
You make an interesting point, and it made me think a bit more. Thank you. That said, with some caveats, yes, it is "ok" for the NPS or whatever other agency to put in chains and other permanent safety features in places like Angels Landing. I don't personally like that they put chains in because it destroys the wildness of the place. However, the governmental agencies are authorized to do it, there are systems in place to weigh the pros and cons of doing it, and in the end, there isn't much I can do about it besides making a public comment during the agency's regulatory process.

And the point is that it's still very distinguishable from what happened here.

I try to obey all laws. Aside from going a little over the speed limit, I'm having trouble thinking of any other laws that I intentionally or at least knowingly violate. I definitely don't permanently affix artwork to slickrock on public land though.
 

scoags

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
58
Well, at least we've all learned something from this whole ordeal. According to https://www.ksl.com/article/5005909...-damage-caused-by-the-internet-sensationalism

"There aren't bathrooms — and yes, pooping in the desert is a misdemeanor."

Waiting for my citations from the BLM in the mail...

"The theft — that is what we are looking into," said San Juan County Sheriff Jason Torgerson. "But we have not had anyone come forward to say they are missing a monolith."

lol no kidding
 

JulieKT

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
142
If you're the kind of person who just walks behind a bush and poops on the ground and leaves your TP all over, it certainly should be a misdemeanor.
Yep, it totally should. During the spring/summer/fall season here around Torrey, I often find toilet paper and other disgusting literal crap on the ground in areas where a lot of people camp or park their RVs. Pisses me off every single time. If I happen to have a plastic bag with me I'll pick up the paper to dispose of it, but more often than not I don't, and of course I sure ain't touching it with my bare hands. Most visitors are good, and don't leave trash. But the careless ones that do...ugh. It's beyond irritating.
 

donkiluminate

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
26
Yep, it totally should. During the spring/summer/fall season here around Torrey, I often find toilet paper and other disgusting literal crap on the ground in areas where a lot of people camp or park their RVs. Pisses me off every single time. If I happen to have a plastic bag with me I'll pick up the paper to dispose of it, but more often than not I don't, and of course I sure ain't touching it with my bare hands. Most visitors are good, and don't leave trash. But the careless ones that do...ugh. It's beyond irritating.


One time we were hiking Death Hollow and got to the confluence with the Escalante River around sunset. We were pretty tired, picked a site, set up our tents and went to bed.

I woke up the next morning to find a bush 3 feet from our tent with crap, toilet paper, and a used tampon next to it.
 

Bob

Trailmaster
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,514
This idea that they couldn't remove it because it was private property is baffling to me. If someone dumps a pile of garbage on BLM land, do they leave it so they won't get sued for moving private property? Of course not, so what's the difference. If you abandon things on public lands, there's no reasonable expectation that it won't get removed, aka your mess cleaned up, regardless if it's a pile of trash or a few sheets of metal riveted together.
Cause everyone is saying it's art......which is BS.
 

Perry

Formerly Cuberant
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Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
2,028
This event made it's way to the "Bee" Too funny!

1606942601556.png


https://babylonbee.com/news/strange-mysterious-stack-of-trump-votes-appears-in-the-utah-desert/
 

JulieKT

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
142
One time we were hiking Death Hollow and got to the confluence with the Escalante River around sunset. We were pretty tired, picked a site, set up our tents and went to bed.

I woke up the next morning to find a bush 3 feet from our tent with crap, toilet paper, and a used tampon next to it.
Blargh. Some people are just so very extremely annoying when out on the beautiful public lands. :(
 

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