What Animal Worries You Most in the Utah Backcountry?

[wnorton]

So how did you get out of that situation?

Rather long story. I'll have to respond when I'm sitting at a computer instead of when I'm typing with my thumbs on an ipad.

Wade



From wnorton using an iPad and Tapatalk HD.

 

[Laura]

Humans, definitely-they are totally unpredictable. You don't want to be caught in some isolated area by yourself with a stranger. I was hiking back to camp in Yosemite one time and passed this really creepy guy going uptrail. A few minutes later a ranger came up to me and asked if I'd seen a guy matching his description (yes, he went thataway). Turns out he was an escaped paranoid schizophrenic. Good thing I wasn't his type. After that it's rattlers, no question. Mountain lions tend to be more curious about us than anything-probably quite a few of us have been shadowed by a mountain lion and never knew it.

 

[gnwatts]

Art

Greg, I just got done with my third or fourth trip into Dark Canyon. Still looking for Felis Concolor. What waterhole (where) were you at in the canyon when you saw her?

I had hiked down Sundance trail kind of late in the day, headed up canyon and passed an inviting side canyon (LUC) to the right, it had a big pool, that was where I saw her. I kept going up that canyon maybe 1/4 mile and camped. I do not recall sleeping very well that night. if at all. She was magnificent though, I got a real good look at her, she was about 100' away.

My neighbor when I lived in Telluride (not long after my experience) had a older, starving mountain lion literally attack him in Dark Canyon. He was a big guy, a weight lifter, maybe 250lbs and about 6' tall, not an ounce of fat on him. He set his pack down to rest when he spotted the starving cat across the stream, maybe 150' away. He had his pack in front of him. The cat actually charged him and he lunged forward with his pack in front to absorb the hit. The cat fell back, and so did he (I saw the claw marks on his pack!). He was lucky that there was a big stick very close, as the cat pulled back a bit and then went after him again and he wacked it hard over the head. This was not a healthy cat as I have said, a lot slower and not as strong as a healthy one. I must admit it was a hard story to believe, but I knew him well and do not doubt it happened like he said.

I have not visited Dark Canyon since. It is a scary place.

 

[Nick]

WOW! Well scratch soloing in Dark Canyon off my list...

 

[Aldaron]

It looks like Dark Canyon just moved higher up on my list!

 

[Tyler]

Art



I had hiked down Sundance trail kind of late in the day, headed up canyon and passed an inviting side canyon (LUC) to the right, it had a big pool, that was where I saw her. I kept going up that canyon maybe 1/4 mile and camped. I do not recall sleeping very well that night. if at all. She was magnificent though, I got a real good look at her, she was about 100' away.

My neighbor when I lived in Telluride (not long after my experience) had a older, starving mountain lion literally attack him in Dark Canyon. He was a big guy, a weight lifter, maybe 250lbs and about 6' tall, not an ounce of fat on him. He set his pack down to rest when he spotted the starving cat across the stream, maybe 150' away. He had his pack in front of him. The cat actually charged him and he lunged forward with his pack in front to absorb the hit. The cat fell back, and so did he (I saw the claw marks on his pack!). He was lucky that there was a big stick very close, as the cat pulled back a bit and then went after him again and he wacked it hard over the head. This was not a healthy cat as I have said, a lot slower and not as strong as a healthy one. I must admit it was a hard story to believe, but I knew him well and do not doubt it happened like he said.

I have not visited Dark Canyon since. It is a scary place.

I was kind of considering Dark Canyon this next weekend, ummmm, no.

 

[Tyler]

With all of this discussion, do any of you carry handguns into the backcountry? I understand not a good idea on National Parks, but I typically pack it in my truck on trips (don't ever get it out), but places like Dark Canyon seem like it would be a good idea to have one with all the Mountain Lion stalking going on there.

 

[Aldaron]

You'll be fine

I hope this doesn't deteriorate into an argument, and I'm not suggesting that I'm trying to impose my conclusions on anyone else, but from my extensive secondary research, I am very confident in the effectiveness of bear spray for those types of animals.

But if a gun makes you feel safer, by all means, take it. I carry a gun every day in my line of work, so I'm not anti-gun. But I am pro-bear spray

 

[Udink]

With all of this discussion, do any of you carry handguns into the backcountry? I understand not a good idea on National Parks, but I typically pack it in my truck on trips (don't ever get it out), but places like Dark Canyon seem like it would be a good idea to have one with all the Mountain Lion stalking going on there.

I carry mine everywhere...national parks, post office, etc. I figure I get outdoors a fair amount, though not as much as many people on this forum, but I've never really needed it.

 

[DAA]

I'm pretty much gunny. Almost always have one close to hand in case of unexpected social occasions. But, as I mentioned earlier, I would never even consider taking on the weight of a pistol while backpacking. I just don't see enough people in the backcountry to make me feel the need for one. And I figure I'm about as likely to be struck by a meteor as actually be killed by a critter. Besides, I've been hunting for more than 40 years, if I somehow do end up as predator turds, there's a kind of poetic justice in that which I'm okay with.

- DAA

 

[Tyler]

You'll be fine

I hope this doesn't deteriorate into an argument, and I'm not suggesting that I'm trying to impose my conclusions on anyone else, but from my extensive secondary research, I am very confident in the effectiveness of bear spray for those types of animals.

But if a gun makes you feel safer, by all means, take it. I carry a gun every day in my line of work, so I'm not anti-gun. But I am pro-bear spray

I have a bad experience with a can of bear spray in my hands and me evacuating the can, some of which made it back to me because of a gust of wind . I thought I was going to die or lose my vision. I learned really quickly that 4 parts dish soap and 1 part water, plus dipping your face in it as much as possible for an hour takes care of that problem pretty good.

 

[Aldaron]

Like I always say: a bad experience with a can of bear spray sure beats the heck out of a bad experience with a gun

To answer your initial question, though, I often carry a gun on overnighters. But that's because I always carry my gun for work and I just simply forget to take it off.

My grandmother once asked if I carried my gun when I went hiking, and I said yes. She said that made her feel better in case a bear attacked me. I said that if I made a huge mistake and got killed by a bear, then they'd probably find my gun in its holster next to my dead body because I didn't intend to shoot a bear.

She didn't like that

But I never take my gun on trips longer than overnighters, because it's not remotely worth carrying the weight.

 

[gnwatts]

I have never felt like I needed a gun in the backcountry, but to each his or her own. Or anywhere else I guess, except when we lived in Venice, Ca., a gun would have been kinda handy at times.
Too heavy also.

 

[Tyler]

To answer your initial question, though, I often carry a gun on overnighters. But that's because I always carry my gun for work and I just simply forget to take it off.

What line of work are you in that requires you to carry a gun? Just curious.

I understand the extra weight thing on a gun. I don't always carry it hiking, but I'd typically do it if it's just me in an area with a high probability of an attack (more un-predictable wildlife) or when with my children. I've also taken into consideration that a wild "human" can be a serious predator too.

 

[rundrumkc]

MOOSE//NAVY SEAL encounter .......I was in the navy (March 1990) and was going through SERE school near Brunswick Maine.. It's a week long POW training course for pilots and aircrewman. I was a helicopter aircrewman and I was paired with a marine harrier pilot. We had built a shelter in the snow and had it covered with a white sheet. We had just woke up and stood up out of our shelter and there was a very large MOOSE standing about 30yds away. We froze. The moose looked at us and then walked away. We started packing up our gear and out of no where I heard some one say " You sure make a lot of noise." It startled me big time. I looked up and there was a 5 man navy seal team standing there in white camo gear with weapons in hand. I had recognized one of them from the flight out of NAS Norfolk. These guys had stealthily walked up within 20yds of us......
Just about every issue of Backpacker magazine tells us how to avoid being bear or cougar bait and how to not make a moose mad but they say nothing about avoiding the worst predator of all MAN... Having said that if I had to pick an animal I guess it would be the cougar because they stalk and attack where as most attacks from bears happened because people just got too close or they didn't follow the safe practices of food storage and cooking/camping.

 

[Nick]

An interesting story on bears on backpacker.com.

http://www.backpacker.com/february-march-2013the-truth-about-bears-the-skills/survival/17302

Specifically this part about guns vs. bear spray:

Put your trust in bear spray. The efficacy of spray vs. guns was the subject of my most recent paper [published last year in the The Journal of Wildlife Management]. Out of 133 encounters involving bear spray, only three people suffered injuries, which were all minor. But I found 269 incidences of gun defenses—with 17 dead people and hundreds of dead bears.

If you shoot a grizzly in the Lower 48, you’re moron of the year. Most states require you to hike out the carcass, and in some cases you’ll have to pay fines [for shooting an endangered species]. Those problems go away with bear spray. Plus, you can use bear spray with impunity—and with positive benefits for bear and human alike. A bear spritzed with pepper spray gets a good spanking—“Hey! These creatures are like skunks. Screw it, I’m outta here!”—and you’re positively conditioning it to associate that lesson with future hikers.

Despite what some people say, I’m not just pimping the [bear spray] industry. Those guys hate me. At one point, I showed that bear spray could actually attract bears. I just demonstrated that if you’re stupid enough to spray it around a tent, you just said, “Eat at Joe’s.” Not a lot of people were doing that, but there were enough that it had to stop. The media distorted it, and I was in a number of TV and radio spots where people said, “Bear spray doesn’t work.” But the correct human analogy for the ways bear react to bear spray is this: I like a milkshake, but I don’t want it sprayed up my nose.

“What do I do if I don’t have bear spray with me?” a woman once asked me. I said, “Don’t not have that stuff!” It’s irresponsible not to protect yourself, but also not to give [the bears] an alternative option. She kept going, saying, “But please answer my question.” I said, “Let me phrase it this way: You are telling me that you’re riding in a truck, and refuse to wear a seatbelt. Then, you’re asking me: What’s the best way to be ejected through the windshield?” That’s when I started realizing that the primary piece of information is this: Don’t go out there without a deterrent. That, and commit to making noise appropriately.

 

[Artemus]

An interesting story on bears on backpacker.com.

http://www.backpacker.com/february-march-2013the-truth-about-bears-the-skills/survival/17302

Specifically this part about guns vs. bear spray:

Thanks for posting this, Nick. The message is that it is better for the humans AND the bears to carry pepper spray!

 

[Howells Outdoors]

I'm mostly concerned with other people but rattlesnakes worry me the most down here although not to bad of a worry.

 

[Yvonne]

I would say spiders. They scare me to death with my phobia.
And then maybe moose.

I guess I'm one of the rare people that actually like rattlesnakes. I like all kind of snakes but usually I only see the non venomous ones like Garter Snakes, Racers, Whip Snakes. Haven't seen a single rattler this year with 300+ hiking miles

 

[Nick]

Do we need to add elk to this poll? A sheepherder was gored by a bull elk in the La Sals this week. Yikes!

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56829844-78/bull-elk-officers-conservation.html.csp