UL Backpacking: A Thread for the Gram Counters

steve said:
Cool, 2lb 1oz is a great weight for a pack that cheap
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Yeah, you usually pay a premium for a pack with that type of weight/capacity ratio which is why it seemed like a no-brainer to give it a shot.
 
yeah. The golite jam @ $109 was a great bargain as well, but those are no longer available.
 
Problem I have found with the really lightweight packs is their suspension and shoulder sraps are way lacking to carry any kind of weight for long treks. I use a Granite Gear Latitude Vapor, 3800ci weighs in at 2lbs 8 oz. There are other brands out there as good as the heavily advertised ones. As always, research, try out and get the pack that fits you best for what type of BPing you do. What is good for one is not necessarily best for another. A decent link for info: http://thru-hiker.com/gear/
 
Bob said:
Problem I have found with the really lightweight packs is their suspension and shoulder sraps are way lacking to carry any kind of weight for long treks. I use a Granite Gear Latitude Vapor, 3800ci weighs in at 2lbs 8 oz. There are other brands out there as good as the heavily advertised ones. As always, research, try out and get the pack that fits you best for what type of BPing you do. What is good for one is not necessarily best for another. A decent link for info: http://thru-hiker.com/gear/
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Yup I agree Bob. The Katahdin 50L doesn't look minimalist or UL in any regard to the straps and padding which is why it's weight is so impressive to me. I haven't given it a much testing yet other than those 2 days. The straps are at least as padded as my Osprey and Deuter day packs and seemed comfortable but I also had my winter layers on which serves as extra padding in itself, so the real test of the shoulder strap padding will be in the summer. Regarding your pack.. 2lbs 8oz is a really good weight for a 60L pack as well. Don't think you could do too much better than that.
 
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I really like it. Had it since 2009. Bought a second and it's on the shelf waiting for the other to wear out. Comfortably carries 45 lbs over the Winds terrain. Friend had a ULA ultra light and it killed his shoulders for 8 days....
 
Hmm I think I see @Bob why some UL packs aren't working for you. An UL pack is meant to carry an UL load which is technically a base weight (all things in and including the pack minus consumables-food water, fuel, toiletries) of under 10 lbs. A typical UL "total" pack weight including the consumables rarely exceeds 20lbs. That is part of the reason why their is less padding... you shouldn't need as much with such a light load. It's not surprising that an UL pack would be uncomfortable when carrying a load that is heavier than what is considered UL.

So when I say I'm trying to convert to ultralight, I'm not just using the word as an adjective. My thought process is that my base 3 weight (sleeping system, pack, tent) will weigh 7 lbs, 2 oz once I swap out my marmot tent with a Fly Creek UL2. That means if I can get the rest of my non-consumables (stove, pot, utensils, empty camelback, water filter, first aid and fire kit, headlamp, cordage, etc) under 2 lbs 14 oz, I will have achieved a base weight that is considered UL. Technically I'll never make it there because of the camera (even though it's a smaller lighter mirrorless camera) so I guess what I'm going for is UL + Camera.
 
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Not my pack, was my friends .... I go for the lightest stuff I can afford and that is worth the $. So much out there is overpriced with the UL designator. My pack (2lb 8oz) sleeping bag (2lb 10z) NeoAir (15oz) tent/poles/stakes/footprint (2lbs 4oz) = 8 lbs 5ozs. My stove, pot, cup 8 oz fuel canister adds 1lb 9 oz. So I am under 10lbs there... I didn't spend a fortune and I don't consider me a UL'er. Lesser known brands are your friend and can be good quality. I have found Granite Gear packs comfortable and tuff. My stuff rotates about every 5 to 8 years. What adds your weight is food, snacks, clothes (depending on weather).....

For our 2 week trips my pack usually starts at about 40 to 45 lbs, no water, camera & fishing gear. By the end of the trip it is usually under 30lbs.
I agree UL packs are for light loads, I wouldn't touch one if I had more than 25 lbs. Go with the weight you are comfortable with not just to get to UL. Sure 25lbs would be nice, but 35 to 40 starting a trip for me is no big deal. And I don't stay on the flatlands..... :)
 
[QUOTE="Bob, post: 45267, member: 831] I go for the lightest stuff I can afford and that is worth the $. So much out there is overpriced with the UL designator.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. That's why I thought it worthy to share about the Katahdin 50L. It's not marketed as UL but it's light, affordable, and seems to be of good quality from what I can tell so far. Next time I'm in the market for a pack I'll definitely check out Granite Gear. I looked into the tarp tents that you recommended and those seem fairly priced and lightweight as well.
 
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Okay, so I've decided to hop on the UL bandwagon. Part way, at least. I'm itching to backpack a lot this year, but with the knee recovery questionable, I figure there's no better time to crunch the weight down. I just went through all of my gear and re-weighed things and thought about where I feel good trimming and where I don't.

Here's what I've changed so far:
  • First Aid/Emergency - dropped from ~11oz to 7.2oz
  • Removed Nalgene Bottle (6.3 oz), replaced with plastic bottle (1.4 oz)
  • Trying out an esbit stove system (.4 oz for stove, .5 oz per fuel tab). We'll see how it goes. I used to use a Pocket Rocket which with one fuel can weighs in at about 13 oz total. So for a 4-day trip, that's about 10.6 oz saved. I only use the stove at night.
  • No more booze when backpacking for me! Depending on the trip, that saves somewhere between 2.5 to 7+ POUNDS!!
  • Switched my multitool from a Gerber Crucial to the Gerber Dime, was 5oz, now 2.2oz
So that's 1 lb, 6.1 oz saved on gear and another ~5 pounds or so in booze.

I went through every single item and weighed it on a new digital scale I picked up. Items in green are solidly luxuries and I know it, but I'm okay with it. I'm at 17.05 pounds for everything except food and water. I figured a pound of food per day and usually carrying 2 liters of water, so that adds 8.38 lbs for a total of 25.43 for a 4-day trip. For certain desert trips, I'd swap the tent for a tarp (18oz) and leave the poncho behind which would drop that 25.43 to 22.36 for a 4-day trip.

The one thing still missing is camera gear, which varies a lot depending on the trip. The minimum I'd carry is just over 4lbs and my max is just over 10lbs, so I just put in an average of 6 pounds of camera gear. That hurts. Getting lighter lenses and camera is not an option for me, so the only improvement I can see to make here is in my tripod. My backpacking tripod weighs in at just shy of 32oz (Slik Sprint Mini with a Manfrotto ball head).

So with all that info, I'd love to hear any suggestions for going lighter. I know there are lots of ways to get there. I'm not looking to be the ultralight guy - I'm totally okay with the extra 3oz in my First Aid/Repair kit for instance, but I would still like to improve where I feel good about doing it. I think my tent is one of the most obvious places.

Thoughts?


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Oh, and I didn't count the weight of my hiking clothes, just the ones I keep in my pack.
 
Awesome nick! Great job weighing everything and eliminating what you don't need. You are very honest on this list, which is great.

Can you ditch the bladder now that you have water bottles?

That pack seems pretty a little on the heavy side, but UL packs ain't cheap, so maybe that should be a last resort. And a comfy pack is more important than lightweight. I'd really like to give the ula circuit a try.

3.7 lbs for a tent is a little on the heavu side, but it's not worth cramming into a tiny tent just to save 1-2 lbs. With how little rain we get in utah, I've just been sleeping in a titanium goat bug net bivvy most of the time. If it's going to rain I'll pitch a tarp.

Depending on the trip, you may not need the battery pack.

I'd say you've whittled it down to a nice lightweight list. 31.4 lbs is fantastic with food and camera gear for 4 days. Your knee and back will thank you.
 
Nick said:
Okay, so I've decided to hop on the UL bandwagon. Part way, at least. I'm itching to backpack this year, but with the knee recovery questionable, I figure there's no better time to crunch the weight down. I just went through all of my gear and re-weighed things and thought about where I feel good trimming and where I don't.

Here's what I've changed so far:
  • First Aid/Emergency - dropped from ~11oz to 7.2oz
  • Removed Nalgene Bottle (6.3 oz), replaced with plastic bottle (1.4 oz)
  • Trying out an esbit stove system (.4 oz for stove, .5 oz per fuel tab). We'll see how it goes. I used to use a Pocket Rocket which with one fuel can weighs in at about 13 oz total. So for a 4-day trip, that's about 10.6 oz saved. I only use the stove at night.
  • No more booze when backpacking for me! Depending on the trip, that saves somewhere between 2.5 to 7+ POUNDS!!
  • Switched my multitool from a Gerber Crucial to the Gerber Dime, was 5oz, now 2.2oz
So that's 1 lb, 6.1 oz saved on gear and another ~5 pounds or so in booze.

I went through every single item and weighed it on a new digital scale I picked up. Items in green are solidly luxuries and I know it, but I'm okay with it. I'm at 17.05 pounds for everything except food, water. I figured a pound of food per day and usually carrying 2 liters of water, so that adds 8.38 lbs for a total of 25.43 for a 4-day trip. For certain desert trips, I'd swap the tent for a tarp (18oz) and leave the poncho behind which would drop that 25.43 to 22.36 for a 4-day trip.

The one thing still missing is camera gear, which varies a lot depending on the trip. The minimum I'd carry is just over 4lbs and my max is just over 10lbs, so I just put in an average of 6 pounds of camera gear. That hurts. Getting lighter lenses and camera is not an option for me, so the only improvement I can see to make here is in my tripod. My backpacking tripod weighs in at just shy of 32oz (Slik Spring Mini with a Manfrotto ball head).

So with all that info, I'd love to hear any suggestions for going lighter. I know there are lots of ways to get there. I'm not looking to be the ultralight guy - I'm totally okay with the extra 3oz in my First Aid/Repair kit for instance, but I would still like to improve where I feel good about doing it. I think my tent is one of the most obvious places.

Thoughts?


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Oh, and I didn't count the weight of my hiking clothes, just the ones I keep in my pack.
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OK this may sound harsh, but it's no more ruthless than I've been with my own packweight (dropping from 19 pounds in summer to 7-9 pounds in the summer over the course of a year)

Tent - if you're hiking in Utah, you need a tarp, nothing more. Get a tarp like the Wild Osasis from SMD if you're worried about bug protection. Chopping off two pounds could buy you a lot of down insulation, or even booze! If you're strapped for cash, buy a piece of silnylon at Kirkhams in SLC. Throw on a couple grommets and a couple tie-outs and you've got a super cheap, super light, super functional shelter.

First aid - People pack their fears, and they tell you to pack enough to keep you from suing them. For first aid, I carry one foil packet of neosporin, a few Aleve, and duct tape. First off, what you carry is far less important than the skill you have in doctoring field injuries. Second off, anything that I can't fix with a little improvisation (hiking shirt will work as a compress to stop the bleeding) or gritting your teeth probably can't be helped by eight ounces of first aid gear. A couple of pointers - take no more than one of everything, and if you don't know how or when you would realistically use an item, leave it at home.

Pad pump - if you have an item whose only purpose is to service another supposedly ultralight item, that's just silly. Trash compactor bag does fine blowing up a neo-air. Two bagfuls should be fine on a windy day, three on a calm one.

Pillow - I'll take a down puffy inside your sleeping bag stuff sack as the most comfortable pillow known to mankind. Again, single use gear is a recipe for a bad time.

Battery pack - Admittedly I'm a grumpy old man, but it seems like you have a ton of weight between a SPOT, a smartphone, and a battery pack. I leave a detailed itinerary with a person at home (in this case, my wonderful mother) and tell them to call emergency if they don't hear from me by a given time. It also forces me to call my mother like I should! I'd be perfectly comfortable carrying none of those, depending on the trip objectives and goals. A camera is a must, though!

Pack - Please, please, please do yourself a favor and rid yourself of a monstrous pack. For those transitioning out of Osprey, ULA is a good choice. For shorter weekend adventures, a small, frameless pack like the ULA CDT, the MLD Burn/Prophet, the Zpacks Arc Blast, etc is perfectly adequate and forces you to be smarter about the stuff you're packing.

In summary, your gear list is overall good with the exception of two (pack and tent) of the Big Four. Drop those to one pound each (very doable in Utah's dry climate) and you're down to 11 pounds baseweight.

And then, get off the internet, stop worrying about the latest cuben fiber widget, and go hike!
 
steve said:
Can you ditch the bladder now that you have water bottles?
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I like the 6L bladder (Dromlite) because it enables larger scale community water collection when staying in one camp and dry camping when needed (we call it 'the kitchen sink' and hang it from a tree or tripod). Sometimes I don't use it at all, sometimes it's priceless. I wouldn't want to replace that with bottles largely due to the space and the fact that it's still lighter by the liter. I tried using it as a pillow on one trip. Did okay but shaped kind of funny for it. Something to think about though...

steve said:
That pack seems pretty a little on the heavy side, but UL packs ain't cheap, so maybe that should be a last resort. And a comfy pack is more important than lightweight. I'd really like to give the ula circuit a try.
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Yeah. It's definitely not amongst the lightest options, but pretty light for the given suspension and size. I used to use a 34L pack but it weighed almost the same so I decided I might as well make stuffing it easier. I'd like to try a true UL pack sometime. Maybe we need to get some to review? ;)

steve said:
3.7 lbs for a tent is a little on the heavu side, but it's not worth cramming into a tiny tent just to save 1-2 lbs. With how little rain we get in utah, I've just been sleeping in a titanium goat bug net bivvy most of the time. If it's going to rain I'll pitch a tarp.
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Yeah, the tent is definitely heavy-ish. I was surprised to see it come in at that weight considering the spec is 3lb, 2 oz. Maybe the 2011 version wasn't quite as light. I think it's worth it's weight in alpine situations. I love the double doors and vestibules and having a 2-man is perfect for me at my size with a dog. I'd be really hesitant to go back to a front loader, but I am a little tempted to check out something like a tarp tent and go back to setting up with poles. I really enjoyed my old Missing Link but it just can't hack it in the wind like the Copper Spur can.

I guess I'm also a little slow to upgrade it because I don't use it much. Probably 90% of my desert backpacking trips I don't bring it, just a tarp.

But maybe it's time to start trying out some other stuff...
 
LarryBoy said:
And then, get off the internet, stop worrying about the latest cuben fiber widget, and go hike!
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I think you've grossly misunderstood my position on this kind of thing and what my experience, concerns and situation are. I could pick it apart, but it's not worth it. To each, his own.
 
Awesome Nick.. I love geeking out with this stuff. I'm inspired to make my own spreadsheet now.

I agree with what @steve said about the pack being more about comfort than weight. I bought the Jansport Khatadin 50L pack cause it weighs 2lbs 1oz (I reviewed it in this thread) but I ended up switching to a heavier Osprey Kestral 38L which is heavier (3lbs 3 oz) because the pack fits that much better.

You can definitely lose a solid 1.5 lbs switching to a different tent without losing any square footage.
 
Nick said:
I think you've grossly misunderstood my position on this kind of thing and what my experience, concerns and situation are. I could pick it apart, but it's not worth it. To each, his own.
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Not at all! Quite the contrary... gear discussions are well and good, but in the end it's about getting out there. As long as you're having adventures, you're doing it right. If you want to find ways to seriously reduce your packweight, I think plenty of people in the thread have provided advice. If that's not what you're looking for, then do whatever enables you to have the kind of adventure you're looking for.
 
Vegan.Hiker said:
I agree with what @steve said about the pack being more about comfort than weight. I bought the Jansport Khatadin 50L pack cause it weighs 2lbs 1oz (I reviewed it in this thread) but I ended up switching to a heavier Osprey Kestral 38L which is heavier (3lbs 3 oz) because the pack fits that much better.
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Totally agree, and I love the Kestrel 38 too. It was my go-to pack for quite a while. I went from that to a Stratos 36 which turned out to have more comfortable suspension for me. I was able to pull off a week long trip out of it, but once I realized an Atmos 50 weighs nearly the same, I decided to make filling it easier and go bigger. I picked up a few ounces, but the improvement in suspension made it feel like I dropped a few pounds.

Vegan.Hiker said:
You can definitely lose a solid 1.5 lbs switching to a different tent without losing any square footage.
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This I am very interested in. Aside from the obvious features, the thing I love most about the Copper Spur is it's ample square footage. I'm 6'4" and the only tents I've used that made it comfy for me to really spread out have been Big Agnes. It seems like they usually have an extra 4-6" in interior length. Anyone have any recommendations with that in mind?
 
I'll always take a tent over a tarp. I don't use hiking poles, I want a floor, bug netting and a place I can sit up in to change and a place to retreat to comfortably in rainy weather.
It's worth the 2 lbs or so.
And on longer trips I bring the Sea to Summit kitchen sink...and I love it! Mainly for a bucket to keep water in and pump from in camp instead of hiking to and from a stream.
And I am the weirdo that packs a large thermarest pillow. Why? Because I seep like a baby with it and it's worth it to me. At home I use 2 pillows...yep I'm needy!
For a 5 day trip my pack weighs 30lbs...and I'm good with it.
 
Nick said:
This I am very interested in. Aside from the obvious features, the thing I love most about the Copper Spur is it's ample square footage. I'm 6'4" and the only tents I've used that made it comfy for me to really spread out have been Big Agnes. It seems like they usually have an extra 4-6" in interior length. Anyone have any recommendations with that in mind?
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I just checked dimensions... If you are willing to give up 4 cm of length (1.4") you would save 1.7 lbs with the 2 person tent I just picked up. But it's also front entry which I know you don't like.
 
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