UL Backpacking: A Thread for the Gram Counters

WasatchWill said:
I'm going to have to thank @mak1277 and @LarryBoy for pointing out the Tarptent Double Rainbow and Six Moon Designs Wild Oasis respectively. Looks like both brands have some other great offerings as well. I've now added both to my growing gear wishlist in addition to the Tarptent ProTrail. The Double Rainbow looks like it would be great for excursions with my wife or any of my children. The Tarptent ProTrail looks quite sturdy, yet lightweight and versatile for a full coverage shelter system for one. When I'm sleeping solo, I don't mind a front loader.
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If you or @steve is interested, I can post a review of the Wild Oasis. Taking the Gatewood Cape on its maiden voyage this weekend (although standards are different for poncho-tarps than they are for standard tarps), so it'll take some time to evaluate how it works for me.

First impressions for me is that the Gatewood Cape in shelter mode is actually better than the Wild Oasis. The ventilation will be better, the supplied guy line is more user-friendly, the entire left side of the shelter can be opened up on nice nights, and there's an internal pocket to stash your sunglasses in a safe place during the night. The only real advantage that the Wild Oasis has is that it's got a bug skirt around the perimeter.

Oh and with regards to alcohol stoves -

I used a fantastic design for about four months of everyday use with zero complaints. It was relatively fast, quiet, efficient, and reliable. It was a "penny stove" design and, although it needed a separate pot stand (wire coat hanger), it was a well-engineered piece of equipment. The only time I had difficulty cooking was in early March in the Appalachians, when it was so cold that my Bic lighter refused to work! Unfortunately, it was lost when I moved out west.

Conversely, its replacement was a stove made out of a cat food can with holes punched in the side. I hate it. It has a tendency to leak fuel, is very suceptible to wind gusts, uses way too much fuel, and offers slow boil times. The only reason I haven't junked it yet is because I don't really use stoves anymore. I'm too lazy to clean my cookpot!

In summary, my experience with alky stoves has gone both ways. I'd say I've learned a couple things -
  • Design matters. My penny stove was pressurized, self-regulating of flame rate, efficient, and aesthetically pleasing. My supercat stove was crap.
  • Craftsmanship matters even more. I cut the pop cans with a razor saw, used a tiny drill bit for the jets, used a protractor to ensure even hole spacing, sealed the joints with JB-Weld, and sanded down irregularities. Measure twice, cut once. Yes, you're making a project out of stuff you'd find in the recycle bin, but if you do a good job and take pride in it, your stove will serve you much better. I'm no handyman, but simply taking the time and doing it right yields great results.
  • Practice! Build 5 or 6 to hone your skills, and give away the early attempts to friends! Just make sure you're not consuming 5 or 6 beers while making your 5 or 6 beer can stoves!
 
Connector for canister o
HomerJ said:
Maybe they've fixed it, but when I last tried it I would have to change it to oz or lbs each time I switched screens. This was quite a few years ago though, was probably still in beta mode...

Thx Bob
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doesn't do that on my PC....... :)
 
LarryBoy said:
If you or @steve is interested, I can post a review of the Wild Oasis. Taking the Gatewood Cape on its maiden voyage this weekend (although standards are different for poncho-tarps than they are for standard tarps), so it'll take some time to evaluate how it works for me.

First impressions for me is that the Gatewood Cape in shelter mode is actually better than the Wild Oasis. The ventilation will be better, the supplied guy line is more user-friendly, the entire left side of the shelter can be opened up on nice nights, and there's an internal pocket to stash your sunglasses in a safe place during the night. The only real advantage that the Wild Oasis has is that it's got a bug skirt around the perimeter.

Oh and with regards to alcohol stoves -

I used a fantastic design for about four months of everyday use with zero complaints. It was relatively fast, quiet, efficient, and reliable. It was a "penny stove" design and, although it needed a separate pot stand (wire coat hanger), it was a well-engineered piece of equipment. The only time I had difficulty cooking was in early March in the Appalachians, when it was so cold that my Bic lighter refused to work! Unfortunately, it was lost when I moved out west.

Conversely, its replacement was a stove made out of a cat food can with holes punched in the side. I hate it. It has a tendency to leak fuel, is very suceptible to wind gusts, uses way too much fuel, and offers slow boil times. The only reason I haven't junked it yet is because I don't really use stoves anymore. I'm too lazy to clean my cookpot!

In summary, my experience with alky stoves has gone both ways. I'd say I've learned a couple things -
  • Design matters. My penny stove was pressurized, self-regulating of flame rate, efficient, and aesthetically pleasing. My supercat stove was crap.
  • Craftsmanship matters even more. I cut the pop cans with a razor saw, used a tiny drill bit for the jets, used a protractor to ensure even hole spacing, sealed the joints with JB-Weld, and sanded down irregularities. Measure twice, cut once. Yes, you're making a project out of stuff you'd find in the recycle bin, but if you do a good job and take pride in it, your stove will serve you much better. I'm no handyman, but simply taking the time and doing it right yields great results.
  • Practice! Build 5 or 6 to hone your skills, and give away the early attempts to friends! Just make sure you're not consuming 5 or 6 beers while making your 5 or 6 beer can stoves!
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Sounds good. I think I'd go for the Tarptent ProTrail ahead of something like the Oasis or a poncho tarp. I like the modularity of it. It's been tested against windy snowstorms in the Andes and was found to be really sturdy. Taking the tarp only would probably halve the 26 ounce weight when there's no concern for bugs and the like. Having something high enough to be able to sit up all the way to cook up a hot drink while waiting out a storm or writing in a log/journal or reviewing photos taken in the day is always a plus.

Your experience with the alky stoves is interesting. I made a penny can stove and open jet stove from another pop can last year in addition to a super cat, and while the pop can stoves were prettier with their blossoms, I ended up taking the super cat out due to not needing a pot stand. I will agree that the super cat definitely rushes through its fuel and I find that it can only hold one ounce before it will spill over. So, again, for heating up 2 cups of water for rehydrating a meal and maybe a drink, I find it's usually sufficient. I rarely saw my water come to a rolling boil, but it usually heats up enough. I have a small piece of hardware cloth that works as a pot stand for the others and I've seen others do the coat hanger or tent stakes as well. Making and tinkering with them sure is fun though. For more precise measurements and holes, there is actually a selection of templates available for a variety of alky stoves at zenstoves. That whole site is pretty informative for learning all about various stove options and different alky designs.
 
LarryBoy said:
If you or @steve is interested, I can post a review of the Wild Oasis. Taking the Gatewood Cape on its maiden voyage this weekend (although standards are different for poncho-tarps than they are for standard tarps), so it'll take some time to evaluate how it works for me.
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I'd be very interested in both. I potentially see a gatewood cape in my near future since golite is out of business.
 
Nick said:
Now some folks actually get a little worked up about how heavy it is. Haha!
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Well, this is the UL thread. ;)

Nick said:
I love mine and have no plans to ever leave it for a frameless true UL pack.
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I can't stand a frameless pack either. Quite a few UL packs these days have frames. My 2 lb pack has a frame and I absolutely love it. The only thing I would change about my pack would be to add strechy exterior pockets instead of the non-stretchy mesh. I'd also run the compression straps under the water bottle pockets (like the Crown VC 60). I absolutely love everything else, and the pockets don't bother me enough to matter. I haven't found another pack that feels more comfortable to me. I lucked out with this pack because it usually takes me 5-10 different brands to find gear I like.
 
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I should look up stuff before I speak. The poncho tarps I've seen have appeared to be rather low pitched and not very roomy inside. After looking up the Gatewood, it looks quite spacious for a poncho tarp. And it looks like SMD also has a bug net insert available for it too. Hmmm...decisions, decisions.
 
I want to play...

With 50L pack
Pack: Jansport Katahdin 50L - 2 lb, 1 oz (33 oz)
Tent: Terra Nova Solar Photon 2 - 2 lb, 1 oz (33 oz)
Bag: Mountain Hardwear Ultralamina 32 - 1 lb, 11 oz (27 oz)
Pad: Z Lite - 14 oz
Pillow: Cacoon Inflatable - 4 oz
Total: 6 lbs, 15 oz (111 oz)

With 38L pack
Pack: Osprey Kestral 38L - 3 lb, 3 oz (51 oz)
Tent: Terra Nova Solar Photon 2 - 2 lb, 1 oz (33 oz)
Bag: Mountain Hardwear Ultralamina 32 - 1 lb, 11 oz (27 oz)
Pad: Z Lite - 14 oz
Pillow: Cacoon Inflatable - 4 oz
Total: 8 lb, 1 oz (129 oz)

I prefer to carry the extra 1lb, 2 oz of the heavier and smaller Kestral 38L pack unless I need the extra room.

My other necessary stuff which I'm not sure why we aren't counting...
3L Hydration Bladder - 9 oz
My "everything" bag (first aid, batteries, cordage, etc.) 5.8 oz
Jetboil sol Ti - 8.5 oz
Headlamp - 2.5 oz
Bare Boxer Contender Bear Canister - 1 lb, 10 oz (27 oz)
Sawyer Mini Water Filter and 2 pouches 2.2 oz
Total - 3 lb, 7 oz (55 oz)
 
Question: does anyone have experience with military rain gear? I picked up a Gore-Tex rain jacket at a thrift store yesterday that is labeled as Propper Gen III Level 6 for cold/wet weather. It is the thinnest and lightest Gore-Tex rain jacket I have ever seen. It appears even thinner than the new Gore-Tex Active stuff they have out. I'm not a big fan of the digital camo pattern but could see myself getting a jacket and rain pants in brown or green as I am not a fan of ponchos and want to cut weight for a multi-day trip this summer on the TCT.
 
steve, I resolved the golite problem with the DIY. I am not a gram counter yet, but I am well south of 15 lbs, even with the camp chair.

I got my wife to make me a poncho/tarp (she hated working silnylon, so other projects are going to take some convincing)...
This is a pic with my big agnes pad for size... I added a couple ounces to make the tarp longer. Since it folds up underneath the extra length is negligible, but for sure the downside is it doesn't do either thing perfectly. We still take a two man tarp to places like the uintas, but for the desert or overnight, or a squall when out hiking for the day, it works great.

No trip pics here, but I pitched it in the yard after sealing it.
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Nick said:
We need a new thread. "Light backpacking: a thread for the ounce counters" :)
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Definitely. I am just super stocked I got my pack+tent+bag+pad weight down to 12.5 pounds. That's over 5 pounds less than what I was carrying last summer. Plus I spent less than what most people probably spend on just their sleeping bag.
 
gear list.JPG

I used the bivy and tarp system in the snow the other day and it worked well and saved me a lot of weight.
 
My next project is to use a bivy and cord and pipe insulation for a Yukon pack to get rid of my pack and sleeping bag (use bivy for pack, shelter and warm weather sleeping bag). My August weight should be 1/2 that.
 
I recently picked up a couple of Nalgene canteens/water bags with the wide mouth lid. They look like they will work with my Steripen more effectively than a generic bladder.

Also, I tested out using my Gore Tex bivy sack as the tarp part of a Yukon pack and attaching my shoulder straps from my backpack. It cut 2 lbs of the weight of my pack and felt quite comfortable and super light.

I got the idea from this youtube video. I realize it is not ideal for every person or situation but things like this give me something to work on and keep my mind busy between trips.
 
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With my wife expecting any day now, I haven't been getting out much lately. I've been able to take some time to go through and create a weight inventory of all my gear. For a simple summer outing into tarp-friendly terrain, I'm able to reach a base/pack weight down to just under 14 lbs. Of course, this doesn't include the consumables like food, water, stove fuel, sunscreen & bug repellant. Not quite to true ultra-light sub 10 pound territory yet, but I'm fairly close.

Here's the gear grams list report: http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=24437

I could cut off some straps and stuff off of the pack I have with this set up, but I'm not that extreme, not yet anyway. Eventually, I may choose to splurge for a zipper-less pack, or just make one myself which could take off about another pound. Replacing the synthetic sleeping bag with a down quilt would take off another pound and replacing the silnylon tarp with a cuben fiber tarp would take off another pound. The wind jacket could be replaced with a thinner pull-over wind-shirt to save a few more ounces and so on. But that would all cost me another $300 to $400+ to make those upgrades. Leaving home the "optional" electronics would drop another pound. Taking food that doesn't need to be cooked or rehydrated would also drop close to another pound.

My first aid kit could also be lightened up a bit, but I've assembled it to be useable for up to at least a week. What I should probably do is just assemble a simple little solo overnighter/weekend kit patterned after Clelland's "dinky stuff" to get it down to about 3 oz.. Speaking of Clelland and first-aid kits, I couldn't find any leukotape at the store, so I just picked up some Nexcare tape to try out in place of moleskin to prevent blisters and so on. I followed Clelland's tip for pre-cutting some strips and fixing them on some silicone release strips. If it's doesn't hold up well, I'll probably order some leukotape off Amazon or something.

I don't know how often I'll be taking this particular setup over my hammock setup, which essentially just swaps out the 5x8 tarp for a slightly bigger 8x10 tarp and the bug net for my hammock which adds a lot more versatility at the expense of a couple more pounds, but it's nice to know I can get my pack weight down to 10-15 pounds with what items I already have now. Under 15 pounds is where I'd like to be from now on when a summer's trip includes a ton of daily mileage and/or significant stretches of steep elevation gains/losses. I'm excited to try it out a couple times this year. Of course, for trips where I may spend lots of time around camp, fishing, etc, then of course I'm going to add in a few extra luxuries such as a fishing pole, book, etc, to enjoy.
 
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pstm13 said:
I recently picked up a couple of Nalgene canteens/water bags with the wide mouth lid. They look like they will work with my Steripen more effectively than a generic bladder.

Also, I tested out using my Gore Tex bivy sack as the tarp part of a Yukon pack and attaching my shoulder straps from my backpack. It cut 2 lbs of the weight of my pack and felt quite comfortable and super light.

I got the idea from this youtube video. I realize it is not ideal for every person or situation but things like this give me something to work on and keep my mind busy between trips.
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Follow Up:

I tried it but it was just not a good for for me.
 
Last year my Arc Teryx Khyber 50 pack weighed 40pounds (fully loaded for a three day trip minus a shelter as my girlfriend was carrying that) and I could barely fit everything inside. This year for our big annual trip it weighed 33lbs, I carried the shelter and I had tons of room to spare. Aside from buying a better and lighter sleeping bag all I did was get rid of stuff I didn't need. Without food and water I'm at 25 lbs and I can get s little lighter.

I'm going to trade my Hubba Hubba for a Nemo Hornet 2P and my Thermarest Trail Lite for a Nemo Astro Air Lite 25L, which will shave a few more lbs. Even with those major two upgrades, though, I'll still be in the low 20's for base weight. My definition of base weight is a little off from the norm though. I include my stove, canister, and spare clothes as well (board shorts, spare quick dry shirt, spare pair socks, spare pair underwear).

For me as "ultralight" as I'll probably ever get is a base weight in the low 20's or high teens as I'm just not willing to change some things. Some of the things I purchased (like my choice of pack) are s little heavier by design, because they're made of more durable materials, and j like that. Other things are a little bit heavier because of my style of cooking or my style of shelter, I like cooking my one pot meals and I like having a free standing or semi free standing shelter. I envy those who are content with sleeping under a tarp. I'd be afraid of waking up with a snake in my tent or just all the annoying bugs.

While I like the idea of Ultralight, I don't like some of the materials and I def don't like some of the methods, especially for an extended trip. I love to see what others do though and I envy those with a 25 pound loaded pack. I guess that being said I fall more into the "lightweight minimalist" category.


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