Running Shoes vs Boots

Okay so @steve got me scared of the zero drop on the Altras so I stopped at REI and picked up a pair of Hoka One One Stinson ATR's (6mm drop). I'll return the Altra's back to Zappos when they arrive. I'm heading to the gym now to run in the Stinson ATR's see if I can get a feel for how I like them. Just wish these Hokas didn't look so wacky.
 
don't be scared, just be aware that they may require some adjustment. I'd love to try a pair of altra lone peaks just to see what they're like. That's a pretty expensive experiment though.
 
Parma said:
Hiking in the Uintas where there are lots of rocky passes, trail runners would suck in those situations.
I was very thankful for my sturdy hiking boots crossing Anderson Pass last August!
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I went over Anderson pass last summer in La Sportiva Raptors. To each their own!

Bob said:
That's the problem so many people following 'gurus' or how to articles. They are professing or writing what works for them, everyone's style and use is different.......... research, research from many sources to get what works for you as the individual...... :)
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BINGO. Shoes, more-so than any other other topic in the hiking world, are incredibly personal because each person's feet are unique, not to mention their packweights, preferences, etc. I'd never recommend a specific model of footwear to someone else, because the shoe might work great for my feet, but might be absolute misery for them. That being said...

I have ankle problems - chronic probably, from having walked 1800 miles in 3.5 months on a bum ankle. Smart, right? I did this in mid-hikers, basically hiking high-tops. Not full-on boots, but certainly on the mid-heavy end of the spectrum. After the thru-hike, as part of my larger re-evaluation of gear and hiking style, I ditched those heavier shoes for lighter, more nimble trail runners. They were still substantial enough (11.5-12 ounces each, depending on how much mud was caked on when I weighed them!) to handle spicy terrain, but nimble enough where I can really control my foot placement and plant squarely. Immediately my ankle problems disappeared (or rather, receded enough to allow me to continue hiking).

This weekend I tested out a new, even lighter pair of trail runners, the La Sportiva Helios (9 oz each). They may not be great for the rocks of PA or the Winds, but walking on sand, slickrock, and through wash bottoms they're superb. My legs don't get as tired at the end of a long day because they don't have to haul as much shoe around. Anyhoo, in general, I'd recommend to people the lightest shoe that they can comfortably hike in. That's different for everyone of course, but who wants to haul around extra shoe?
 
LarryBoy said:
This weekend I tested out a new, even lighter pair of trail runners, the La Sportiva Helios (9 oz each). They may not be great for the rocks of PA or the Winds, but walking on sand, slickrock, and through wash bottoms they're superb. My legs don't get as tired at the end of a long day because they don't have to haul as much shoe around. Anyhoo, in general, I'd recommend to people the lightest shoe that they can comfortably hike in. That's different for everyone of course, but who wants to haul around extra shoe?
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Light makes right, Larry!

I agree with you entirely. I buy sticky rubber approach shoes on sale. I try and keep an extra pair on the shelf since they only last me one season typically. If they weigh more than one pound each I don't bother. This was a decades long transition from the 5# each full leather monsters the experts scared me into buying when I was still a flatlander.

Now, I have to slow down and wait for my friends through boulder fields as they teeter and totter through with their stiff mountaineering boots. These style of shoes, like your Helios, have gotten me through 80+ miles off-piste in the Winds, climbs up easier rock climbing peaks and the epic talus-glissade descents coming back down. For me, I am not going back.
 
Parma said:
@LarryBoy Those Rators look like pretty sweet shoes.
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I've got bunions, so the big toebox makes my feet happy. Also has plastic reinforcers around the heel that lends a slight degree of stabilization and keeps the shoe from collapsing inward too badly (I pronate severely). Also the sole is nice and aggressive and is thick enough to keep my foot from getting jabbed with rocks. THAT BEING SAID, go to Campsaver or the Backcountry outlet or REI (If they have them, I don't know) and try them on. They may or may not mesh with your foot. :)
 
Vegan.Hiker said:
Okay so @steve got me scared of the zero drop on the Altras so I stopped at REI and picked up a pair of Hoka One One Stinson ATR's (6mm drop). I'll return the Altra's back to Zappos when they arrive. I'm heading to the gym now to run in the Stinson ATR's see if I can get a feel for how I like them. Just wish these Hokas didn't look so wacky.
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Yeah I wouldn't be scared of it, like I said I won't go back now! It's more if you take them out of the box and go run 6 miles, you'll regret it. I just used them for my 3 mile runs for a couple weeks and then switched to them full time after that. Hokas may prove better for trail running though, I am just not very experienced with trail running to give the best advice. Way to go from one extreme to the other though ;) Hokas are def polar opposites from Altras! :)

I am thinking about some of these http://www.runningwarehouse.com/Altra_Olympus/descpage-AOLYM1.html I like a little more padding anyway and 63 bucks isn't too bad to see how I like the zero drop on the trail! Let me know how you like the Hokas!
 
Devo said:
Way to go from one extreme to the other though ;) Hokas are def polar opposites from Altras! :)
Let me know how you like the Hokas!
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Just curious why you say the Altras and Hokas are polar opposites? From what I understand is they are both the same concept of maximal stack height and wide outsole for stability. I haven't hiked in the Hokas yet but my impression from running in them yesterday is that they felt very cushioned, yet stable and light. In a way they felt bulkier than my boots though in the sense that I wasn't used to the huge outsole. Hopefully, I'll just get used to it. If I don't get used to it I'll be kicking myself for not getting the Hoka Challenger ATR's instead which I tried on and felt like it had less bulk in the outsole. I won't really know how much I like them until I hike in them though.
 
Vegan.Hiker said:
Just curious why you say the Altras and Hokas are polar opposites? From what I understand is they are both the same concept of maximal stack height and wide outsole for stability. I haven't hiked in the Hokas yet but my impression from running in them yesterday is that they felt very cushioned, yet stable and light. In a way they felt bulkier than my boots though in the sense that I wasn't used to the huge outsole. Hopefully, I'll just get used to it. If I don't get used to it I'll be kicking myself for not getting the Hoka Challenger ATR's instead which I tried on and felt like it had less bulk in the outsole. I won't really know how much I like them until I hike in them though.
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They both have large foot boxes so in that way they are for sure similar. What I mean by opposites is the drop ratio. Hokas are where you find some of the biggest difference in heel to toe height vs Altras which are all zero drop (no matter the thickness of the padding will alway have a 1 to 1 ratio heel to toe. I use the Torins which are 28 mm padding heel to toe for example). There is a ton or marketing on both sides saying which is better, I just think it's what is better for each individual. I love zero drop and it's all I run in now, but my wife can't do it she needs a raised heel.

You'll like the wide platform though for sure, your feet are just more free, although in my wife's words they give you "duck feet". I will take comfort and performance any day over style. My Torins are hideous lol but I love them.
 
So @Nick linked to this thread in another thread, which got me reading it again, which got me curious to break out the scale and see how much I actually saved switching from my Northface boots to Hoka One One trail runners.

About 9 oz on the pair and my Northface are a pretty light boot. Not bad considering that weight is on your feet.

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Wow, I wish I would have read this thread before I purchased my latest hoof covers ...... you are a very thorough people, you backcountrypost folks.

For what it's worth and yes, it's completely anecdotal in nature ........ I recently switched from a pair on Merrell Moabs (6+ months & I did like them) to a pair of La Sportiva Ultra Raptors and absolutely love the new raptors. Keep in mind that I'm not doing more than 4-6 hour hikes in them with very small loads (5-10 lbs) but they've been great so far (been using them for over a month now).

- Raptor out
 
Thought I'd share my technique for affordable trail runners (works well for smartwools too): find a kind that I like on Sierra Trading Post and then order a half-dozen pairs while they have them. It's usually possible to get 30-40% off the price they list (which is already way lower than sticker price) so you end up getting great shoes for $45/pair or less. Even w/o the price difference this would be a good idea since the stupid shoe makers love to cancel and tweak their designs.

Through painful experience I've learned that probably the main drawback of trail runners in the desert is cacti.
 
I've done some more research since I started this thread. I went on a small hike in some running shoes..... and hated it. I felt every single stupid rock through my shoes, I can't imagine how it would have sucked if I had actually been on a rocky trail, this trail was pretty smooth. no weight savings was worth that for me. So I for sure have settled on a low top hiking boot, something like the Merrill Moab.
 
Don't forget to replace the insoles. Most insoles that come with the shoes are very thin and offer no cushioning.
I use Sof Sole products. It makes a huge difference in the comfort and support. My feet don't hurt so much anymore at the end of the day.
Plus I think they help with knee and hip discomfort too
 
I hiked Lake Hardy in a pair of Altra Lone Peak 2.5s two weeks ago. They did really well when everything was dry. Once it got wet, they were ice skates on the granite. I would have been safer barefoot. In fact, at one point I switched to my Luna sandals because the Altras were so slippery.

Apart from the wet traction issue, I really liked them.
 
i switched from boots to trail runners a few years ago. i hike mostly in the northeast which is frequently wet, and once boots get wet, they stay wet, and heavy. i use la sportiva ultraraptors which are half the weight of the keen targhees i used to use, they dry out quickly, and the climbing rubber soles stick to everything. i use superfeet green insoles, which give a bit more protection in the forefoot against rocks,roots.
if your feet are exactly like mine i recommend them.
it was a bit of a learning curve at first, not wanting to get my feet wet, but i found as long as i was hiking they would dry out, and when i stopped for camp, put on dry socks. now ill even do stream crossings without taking them off.
 
I can't stop myself from chiming in on yet another boot v. shoe thread.

I disagree with this guy. There doesn't need to be a choice. You can pack the boots and wear trail runners in good conditions. Rain pants and gaiters are an option that he simply rules out. He doesn't address situations that may require boots such as when using crampons (despite his pic of running shoes in the snow). He also assumes the conditions will allow shoes to dry out. He ignores the fact that wet shoes weigh as much or more than dry boots.
He also misrepresents the effectiveness of waterproof breathable membranes like gore tex. Also, there are times when a heavy pack is required. The PCT has several places to mail food so you don't have to carry a lot. I don't hike the PCT so I have to carry everything from the start. I may also need climbing/mountaineering gear that by itself weighs 15 lbs. In short, I'm glad he found a system that works for him. However, his reasoning kinda sucks.

I have a general theory with gear and stuff. That theory is one that involves a metaphorical tool box (my closet is the box and my outdoor gear is the tools). I can imagine my wife rolling her eyes at me right now as I write this.

Anyway, as Bob and others have stated, there is not one silver bullet tipped set of footwear out there for every situation. My style is to wear the most comfortable shoes that can handle the conditions. If river crossings are going to be an issue then my Chacos kick butt and I may use them the entire trip. If not I'll probably bring Crocs along for the river. If the trail is maintained with good weather my TNF Hedgehogs with GTX get the job. If there is any chance of ongoing bad weather, snow, rough or off trail hiking/climbing, a heavy pack, crampons, ice axe, or just who knows what I will run into, then my Asolo TPS 520s will be on my feet and some crocs or flip flops in my pack.

To me it's not boots or shoes. It should be boots AND shoes, and Chacos, and Crocs. Just pick the best option or combination for the situation. In my mind, these four seem to cover nearly every possible 3 season scenario from a day at the lake to non technical mountaineering and glacier crossings.

As for waterproof footwear, hell yes. I hate wet feet. I hiked Glacier NP without my waterproof boots and it totally sucked. I will never do it again. However, I will only use gore tex. It has it's limits but does breath fairly well and you have to maintain it properly or it will wash out and moisture will build up inside. Gore tex does leak little after a year or two. I just fill them with water, look for leaks, and patch the inside with a little gear tape. I did this with non gore tex trail shoes and there was not enough repair tape in the world to plug all the holes. To keep water from dripping off my legs and into my shoes or boots I use rain pants and some times gaiters. Also, wet feet in my eyes are kinda dangerous. Especially when in a snow field, on extended hikes (hellashious blisters), and changing weather with temps near 40 or lower.

Test it out...
The writer suggests testing out shoes on a long day hike. This is crap. I suggest picking the crappiest tail around on a cold rainy weekend in the spring and spending the night. The answer to this debate comes in the morning when you put on your shoes or boots. My running shoes are always cold and wet. My boots or waterproof trail shoes are dry and comfortable inside.

Post Script:

The first picture in the article was taken above Sunrise Lake on the Teton Crest Trail. I camped in the rocks behind the lake a few weeks ago. It rained 3 of the 4 days. I was very glad that I chose to wear solid waterproof mid boots with GTX. However, other people also had a second pair of trail runners and did not wear them until after noon the 4th day.
 
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i will only wear insulated boots when conditions demand. the issue i have with gore tex,non insulated shoes is once they are clogged with sweat and dirt, they dont breathe. your feet get wet, and stay wet, with little or no opportunity to dry out. when you're hanging around in wet boots, your feet gt a lot colder than a trail runner which will dry out quickly. either way, once youre in camp, its important to get your feet dry and switch into dry socks.i often hike for weeks or months at a time, and overall versatility is important in a variety of conditions. for short trips or overnights, i prefer a goretex boot.
 
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