Permit systems - good or bad?

[Nick]

What is this 'patience' you speak of? I need my instant gratification! Hehe. To be honest, I've never gone through with a Yellowstone permit request until this year, largely because it seemed like too much of a PIA. I have my application in now though - shooting for some sites on Yellowstone Lake in late Aug/early Sept. We'll see how it goes!

 

[scatman]

Nick - I'm confident that you will get exactly what you have asked for and that you will have a splendid time. If you get a chance off-trail to Brimstone Basin and/or hike to the top of Langford Cairn for an excellent view of the Yellowstone River Delta and the Thorofare.

 

[Nick]

Nick - I'm confident that you will get exactly what you have asked for and that you will have a splendid time. If you get a chance off-trail to Brimstone Basin and/or hike to the top of Langford Cairn for an excellent view of the Yellowstone River Delta and the Thorofare.

That reminds me - I need to start a thread to get some input like that. I'll post up my plan in the trip planning forum. I'd love to hear your thoughts on what to see/do out there.

 

[Nick]

To those of you who have submitted for Yellowstone permits before the April 1st opening date for fulfilling them: about how long until you got confirmation back from them whether you got what you asked for? And does it come snail mail?

 

[River]

Usually by email on April 1st if successful.

 

[scatman]

It's taken a day or two for me to receive the email confirmation in the past.

 

[Nick]

Well suck... hope I get an email soon...

 

[River]

Am I allowed a late April Fools? Just messin with ya. I know how excited you are to get the new boat out on the lake.

I have no idea. I used to just call them the week before our trip and figure out what was available, but it's been years since it's not so dog friendly.

 

[Nick]

Haha. You jerk! I really need to work on this patience thing....

 

[scatman]

Nick - Just received my first of three permits from Yellowstone, so it looks like they are on there way.

 

[Nick]

Nick - Just received my first of three permits from Yellowstone, so it looks like they are on there way.

Still no word on my permits.

 

[scatman]

I have received all three of mine. Call the main Backountry Office in Mammoth and ask about your status. (307) 344-2160

 

[Nick]

Woot woot! That did the trick. They said they had sent the email but I never got it. Then it comes in while I'm on the phone. Time to start a thread to get advice on my upcoming trip!

 

[scatman]

Woot woot! That did the trick. They said they had sent the email but I never got it. Then it comes in while I'm on the phone. Time to start a thread to get advice on my upcoming trip!

Did you get what you requested?

 

[Nick]

Did you get what you requested?

Yep. First choices all around.

 

[DrNed]

I've got a new perspective on the permit system having returned from Coyote Gulch with a group of scouts.

I did the Subway several years ago, which was a permit only trip and had tried for several years previous to that to get a permit. With the experience of trying and not succeeding to get a permit after several attempts left me with feeling of not liking permits, that it was too bureaucratic. I took a group of boys to Coyote Gulch April 10-12 (TR coming soon) and based on many of the comments here I put the fear of an excruciating, slow, painful death in their head should there be any behavior that would be annoying or noticeable to anyone else there. I was very pleased with their behavior, we had fun, did some great hiking & exploring and in my opinion were unnoticed by anyone.After spending a night at Lobo Arch right in the middle of the cove where the river bends, I've got a new perspective on permits. There was literally a family reunion right next to us. 10+ kids under the age of 10, with at least 12 or more adults. They had fires, they were doing shadow puppet shows on the wall, and were still doing "echo" until 10:00 PM when I fell asleep. Fortunately there were cooler heads in my group so I didn't go and say something that would have started a fight because I was livid.
Having had a few days to think about it and read all the comments I have come to the conclusion that no permit would stop such awful, self centered behavior. That's a reflection of who they are and unfortunately self centered people are found everywhere. In my opinion, large groups of people tend to foster bad behavior, a kind of herd mentality seems to set in.
So the best we can do is to provide training, have minimum standards of training that people must pass and let people act how they will.

While I abhor the idea of big brother monitoring anything I do, I do like the license idea and having a minimum training that one must pass to have a license. Like one can have several different endorsements on their drivers license, one could have different endorsements on their "Wilderness License," allowing them access to certain locales that wouldn't be open to others.

The BSA does something similar to this. There are on line trainings that a leader must pass to do certain activities. They're very basic, but I believe the thinking is if people hear the right things enough times, they'll act accordingly, and really that's all we can hope for.

 

[Nick]

That sounds awful, @DrNed! Infuriating that so many people walk right by a sign very similar to the one below to get in there and then still think it's okay to do that kind of crap. The more I hear of what is happening in Coyote, the more I think it's overdue for a quota permit system, or at least some resources allocated to enforcing the existing rules.

 

[Yellowstone 1]

Woot woot! That did the trick. They said they had sent the email but I never got it. Then it comes in while I'm on the phone. Time to start a thread to get advice on my upcoming trip!

SWEET! You're going to like the Yellowstone backcountry.

 

[steve]

^ where is that sign from Nick?

 

[Nick]

^ where is that sign from Nick?

Willow Gulch. The Coyote ones are basically the same but have no dogs allowed. Ahhh, I have one of it too. I like taking pictures of signs for some strange reason. This one is out at the Fortymile Ridge Trailhead.