Opportunity to provide input on policies for Coyote Buttes North ("The Wave") and nearby areas

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Janice

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I received an email today from the BLM with the attached "Notice of Public Scoping Letter for the Proposed Change in Management of the Paria Canyon-Vermilion Cliffs Wilderness and Other Related Actions." If you'd like to provide ideas and feedback related to permitting for and/or maintaining land at the Wave and other nearby areas, you can attend public meetings in Kanab, Page, and St. George or send comments by June 21.
 

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fossana

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I'll find out about how they plan to run the scoping meetings and report back. The GSENM scoping ones were more like an open house with staff answering questions at various resource-centric stations.
 

Janice

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I'll find out about how they plan to run the scoping meetings and report back. The GSENM scoping ones were more like an open house with staff answering questions at various resource-centric stations.
Sounds good. I live 1500 miles away and will not be able to attend a meeting, but I'll be sending my letter before June 21!
 

zionsky

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Dec 23, 2018
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Sounds like their considering increasing daily limit from 20 to 96. I don't know what the "right" number is but the current process and me living on the east coast makes my odds pretty small. So far, I'm 0-4 in the lottery but I'll put in again this fall.
 

Janice

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Sounds like their considering increasing daily limit from 20 to 96. I don't know what the "right" number is but the current process and me living on the east coast makes my odds pretty small. So far, I'm 0-4 in the lottery but I'll put in again this fall.
I feel similarly. I also am not sure what the right number of people per day is, but with the current system my odds are very small, too. Last year I called and then sent a follow-up letter expressing my frustration at not being able to get a permit and my hope that they will revise the process. I suggested that they allow online permitting far in advance (one or more years) so that people can get a date and then plan trips accordingly. I know there are many fabulous rock formations to enjoy in addition to the Wave, but I'd still like to go there someday!
 

zionsky

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Personally, I'd like to see a change to the walk in process. Having to be in the kanab office at 8:30 am wrecks my day as I'm a "crack of dawn" hiker. With today's technology, there should be a way to apply/notify similar to the advance lottery.
 

fossana

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The St George BLM office stated that the meetings will be more of an informal type, so you can drop in any time during the window to chat with staff.
 

SteveR

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Can see MAYBE a justification for a small increase in the number of Coyote N and S permits. Probably at least 90% of Coyote N applicants have the Wave, and ONLY that in mind when applying for a permit. 96 sounds way too excessive to me, and seems likely to despoil the feeling of being someplace special. Imagine even half of those hanging around waiting for their turn at "the shot". Maybe 30 per day? That's easy for me to say, I guess, having been lucky enough to visit both Coyote N and S twice. Another thought- more permits may simply encourage a vicious circle of even more applicants.
 

WasatchWill

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I'ver never applied and figured I never would with the way it's set up now and how much competition there is for such a few permits per day. If they do take it up to 96, why not just round up to 100? Honestly...My input is that they start with just doubling the numbers to 40 and see what happens. 96 or anything up that high seems excessive to make that big of a jump when they know that is more likely to spoil the experience and parts of the landscape.
 

Carcass

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I have applied via the on line lottery AND have been many times to the walk in lottery and have failed miserably for 2 1/2 years. The last time I went to the walk-in lottery some guy got it and yelled "this is my 4th time!!!!"

I wanted to strangle him.....
 

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Carcass

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I think they should start with 60.

I'll be down in Kanab to pick up my Paria Canyon permit so I'll stop by and give my 2 cents worth.
 

joeygeo1

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I'ver never applied and figured I never would with the way it's set up now and how much competition there is for such a few permits per day. If they do take it up to 96, why not just round up to 100? Honestly...My input is that they start with just doubling the numbers to 40 and see what happens. 96 or anything up that high seems excessive to make that big of a jump when they know that is more likely to spoil the experience and parts of the landscape.
I agree fully with this. Not understanding where they are getting their numbers. Start with a modest increase and go from there. In the grand scheme of things, 96 is still a very small number. I am more concerned about the potential damage to the area, increased cars on House Rock Road, etc. Start small and see how it works.
 

WasatchWill

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I have applied via the on line lottery AND have been many times to the walk in lottery and have failed miserably for 2 1/2 years. The last time I went to the walk-in lottery some guy got it and yelled "this is my 4th time!!!!"

I wanted to strangle him.....
Perhaps they could make a limit of one visit per 5-10 years or so. So, once you've won and had your chance to see it, you're no longer eligible to re-apply until x number of years have passed.
 

fossana

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Perhaps they could make a limit of one visit per 5-10 years or so. So, once you've won and had your chance to see it, you're no longer eligible to re-apply until x number of years have passed.
This, plus I'd like to see them limit group size. @Carcass my neighbor has similarly tried for many years to get a permit, and has yet to be successful.
 

Janice

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Perhaps they could make a limit of one visit per 5-10 years or so. So, once you've won and had your chance to see it, you're no longer eligible to re-apply until x number of years have passed.
Great idea - it seems that each person would have to be named on a permit, so people in a group wouldn't just take turns being the applicants. Will you be sharing this idea with the BLM? I've already sent a letter but can send a follow-up if necessary.
 

Janice

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This, plus I'd like to see them limit group size. @Carcass my neighbor has similarly tried for many years to get a permit, and has yet to be successful.
Great idea to limit group size. I don't know what that limit should be, but I think some limit should be required. Will you be sharing this idea with the BLM? I've already sent a letter but can send a follow-up if necessary.
 

Janice

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I think they should start with 60.

I'll be down in Kanab to pick up my Paria Canyon permit so I'll stop by and give my 2 cents worth.
Sounds great - and have a wonderful time in Paria. One of my favorite trips ever!
 

Janice

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I have applied via the on line lottery AND have been many times to the walk in lottery and have failed miserably for 2 1/2 years. The last time I went to the walk-in lottery some guy got it and yelled "this is my 4th time!!!!"

I wanted to strangle him.....
I imagine you weren't the only one who wanted to strangle him... :(
 

fossana

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Great idea - it seems that each person would have to be named on a permit, so people in a group wouldn't just take turns being the applicants. Will you be sharing this idea with the BLM? I've already sent a letter but can send a follow-up if necessary.
Yes, I will be writing a letter this week.
 

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