Help Me Plan Our Trip!

[jdgibney]

So, with the increase in work, I think I'm going to be able to set aside enough scratch to put together a return trip to southern Utah in the fall. I don't think it will be until after November 3rd. The bonus is, I hate being super hot, especially while hiking, and that was a downer the first time I went out there, though the downer will be the shorter days...

My friend would like to try to visit the wave/CBN, and if we do that, I'd also like to check out CBS since I've been to CBN (though there's a lot out there I didn't get to see outside of the main wave area)... we also want to keep the driving to a minimum as, during our first visit in Sept/Oct 2010, we did a pretty good sized loop (basically Vegas>Page>Monument Valley>Moab>Torrey>Bryce>Zion>Vegas) and put over 2000 miles on the rental car. we also ended up with an insane itinerary and tried to fit way too much into it and got burnt out (with a touch of heat stroke, I think...) We're thinking we'd like to keep it to a smaller area and concentrate on maybe longer hikes, and better photo ops (especially sunsets/sunrises). Personally, I'd love to see some of Zion (we just drove through, as my friend was extremely sick and it was 100 degrees, october 3rd ) and some of Escalante. I'd love to be able to do Coyote Gulch, though I'm not sure how practical that would be unless I could snag one of you as a guide

Just kind of thinking out loud here, but I'm hoping to put together a good off the beaten path itinerary over hopefully 12 days in early november... Any suggestions?

We'd probably fly in/out of Vegas again, and rent a car. Personally, I'd like to do some camping, though I'm not sure the best way to get camping gear out there if we're both flying (Have never done that before)....

Any way, I'm hoping to pick all of your brains for any suggestions, tips, tricks, etc. I appreciate it in advance, and it'd be great to meet up with some of you guys if you'll be around!

 

[jdgibney]

PS, one of these days, I'll put up a trip report and some photos from our first trip. It's pretty lame and touristy compared to what I'm reading here, but for our first time out there, it was decent!

 

[wes242]

November could be a good time, the only thing is you don't know what mother nature has in store for you. If it rains a bunch of the trips could be ruined, so I would make some back up plans just incase. It would suck to plan a Coyote trip and not be able to get out there. That almost happend when we did it in september.. Floods the day before and after, we got lucky by dropping our 3 night plan to just 1 and it was a perfect night. Coyote isn't bad if you can read a map, and a Gps and have a good sense of direction, that is if you don't get a guide. I am planning a day hike loop there next month.

Zion has a lot to offer, again the rain plays a factor. I camped in November years ago and the Fall colors were pretty nice, and the weather wasn't too cold for camping. It did rain on us and we cancelled our Subway hike. We did the Narrows though. However it will be COLD water, just rent you some dry pants and footware. Hike it early though for when the sun is right above your photo opps are shot!

Just a couple of options for you anyway

 

[uintahiker]

What sort of rental car are you going to get?

Cathederal Gorge (NV) + hot springs in Panaca would be a good diversion. Good for on the way to or from Vegas.
Kanarra Creek would be good for a dayhike- maybe cold though.
If traveling through the Panguitch Lake area while going to Escalante, the Mammoth Lava Tube would be a fun stop.
Be sure to hit up a few slot canyons around Escalante. Coyote Gulch is a great 2-day trip- mandatory sidetrip up to Stevens Arch.

 

[jdgibney]

What sort of rental car are you going to get?

Cathederal Gorge (NV) + hot springs in Panaca would be a good diversion. Good for on the way to or from Vegas.
Kanarra Creek would be good for a dayhike- maybe cold though.
If traveling through the Panguitch Lake area while going to Escalante, the Mammoth Lava Tube would be a fun stop.
Be sure to hit up a few slot canyons around Escalante. Coyote Gulch is a great 2-day trip- mandatory sidetrip up to Stevens Arch.

No idea what we'll get for a rental car. It seems like we always end up with some kind of 'all wheel drive' vehicle that probably wouldn't be too suitable for what I'd need for anything too 'off the beaten path'. We took one down to CBN in Jan 2010 but the conditions were ideal.

November could be a good time, the only thing is you don't know what mother nature has in store for you. If it rains a bunch of the trips could be ruined, so I would make some back up plans just incase. It would suck to plan a Coyote trip and not be able to get out there. That almost happend when we did it in september.. Floods the day before and after, we got lucky by dropping our 3 night plan to just 1 and it was a perfect night. Coyote isn't bad if you can read a map, and a Gps and have a good sense of direction, that is if you don't get a guide. I am planning a day hike loop there next month.

Zion has a lot to offer, again the rain plays a factor. I camped in November years ago and the Fall colors were pretty nice, and the weather wasn't too cold for camping. It did rain on us and we cancelled our Subway hike. We did the Narrows though. However it will be COLD water, just rent you some dry pants and footware. Hike it early though for when the sun is right above your photo opps are shot!

Just a couple of options for you anyway

I've heard the weather can definitely be fickle in November... I'd love to do the Subway, not sure if I've got the proper skills to navagate something like that (?) just yet... We will definitely have backup plans for whatever we do. I guess we can't really plan too much until we know the exact days that we can go (right now, flights from Boston to Vegas are just under $250 r/t in November, so I'm itching to book something!!

 

[Yvonne]

I would book as soon as possible, otherwise the fees are just insane. They wanted almost 1k for a flight to Las Vegas in March when I compared prices last month.
What rental car company will you use?
If you go with Alamo, they have a choiceline in Las Vegas. Which means you can choose the SUV you want. So you can basically choose one with 4x4. I'll see what I will get tomorrow, first time I rented a small SUV.

Like others mentioned earlier, I would always have a Plan B, because you never know which weather conditions you'll have in November.
I've never been in the area in November, so I can't tell you much.
With all the camping stuff, I always bring all my stuff. One carry-on bag where I usually have my tent, sleeping bag and pad and the bulky stuff checked. For longer trips I usually check two bags and have my jack, air compressor and stuff like that checked as well. It's no problem to do it.
If you're flying to Vegas, they have two REI stores in the area where you can gear up with stuff.
But I would recommend to bring your own, maybe you can test it this summer in your area.

 

[Nick]

I'm thinking of some suggestions. November should be sweet as far as having places all to yourselves, not so sweet for the length of days. But that just means you have more opportunities to shoot star photos!

 

[intuitive cat]

In terms of the Escalante Canyons, the weather in November will be chillier than you would imagine, with nights usually starting to dip below freezing on occasion. That period can also have intense winds as the seasons change, similar to early spring (expect possible gusts of 40 to 50 mph on the windy days, usually with calm mornings and winds moving in in the afternoons)
Late october and early november see some sporadic showers, but nothing like august and september. by late september, storms tend to ride Boulder Mountain more than the Straight Cliffs. The weather is definitely unpredictable. Daytime temps can range from 40-45 degrees to 90 degrees.
Post monsoon season hiking can be great in terms of sand being more packed down, unspoiled water flow features, less tracks, etc.
Plus there is the tail end of the second bloom & the lighting & shadows are amazing.

 

[Nick]

Damn, intuitive cat. I am more than a bit envious of your first hand knowledge of the seasons around Escalante!

 

[jdgibney]

I would book as soon as possible, otherwise the fees are just insane. They wanted almost 1k for a flight to Las Vegas in March when I compared prices last month.
What rental car company will you use?
If you go with Alamo, they have a choiceline in Las Vegas. Which means you can choose the SUV you want. So you can basically choose one with 4x4. I'll see what I will get tomorrow, first time I rented a small SUV.

Like others mentioned earlier, I would always have a Plan B, because you never know which weather conditions you'll have in November.
I've never been in the area in November, so I can't tell you much.
With all the camping stuff, I always bring all my stuff. One carry-on bag where I usually have my tent, sleeping bag and pad and the bulky stuff checked. For longer trips I usually check two bags and have my jack, air compressor and stuff like that checked as well. It's no problem to do it.
If you're flying to Vegas, they have two REI stores in the area where you can gear up with stuff.
But I would recommend to bring your own, maybe you can test it this summer in your area.

I hope you're having a great trip! I have been working all over New England the last few weeks and haven't been able to respond but thanks for taking the time... I did Alamo the last 2 times I flew through Vegas but was unable to get a 4wd vehicle (they both had AWD I believe, not sure if that's sufficient?)

I'm thinking of some suggestions. November should be sweet as far as having places all to yourselves, not so sweet for the length of days. But that just means you have more opportunities to shoot star photos!

I probably can't do any specific planning until my friend lets me know her availability (I'm much more flexible, and I'm trying to talk her into as many days as possible...) I know she wants to go to the wave, we tried on our trip in sep/oct 2010, though with the crazy heat wave, I'm glad we didn't get the permits.... and I ended up going in January 2011..
Hopefully we'll be able to get a couple of permits for the time we have allotted, and I'd love to be able to check out CBSouth as well....

In terms of the Escalante Canyons, the weather in November will be chillier than you would imagine, with nights usually starting to dip below freezing on occasion. That period can also have intense winds as the seasons change, similar to early spring (expect possible gusts of 40 to 50 mph on the windy days, usually with calm mornings and winds moving in in the afternoons)
Late october and early november see some sporadic showers, but nothing like august and september. by late september, storms tend to ride Boulder Mountain more than the Straight Cliffs. The weather is definitely unpredictable. Daytime temps can range from 40-45 degrees to 90 degrees.
Post monsoon season hiking can be great in terms of sand being more packed down, unspoiled water flow features, less tracks, etc.
Plus there is the tail end of the second bloom & the lighting & shadows are amazing.

Thank you for the insight, high winds could make for difficulties. I don't mind chilly as much as super hot...

 

[jdgibney]

So, just brainstorming outloud again, the more I think and read about it, three things I WANT to do (whether or not they would be do-able especially at that time of year is still debatable. I'd actually like to go in September for the longer days, I'm just not sure if we could swing it.)

A couple of days at Coyote Buttes North and South (what would be the best way to do this logistically? obviously getting permits for CBN will be the first priority and we won't know date wise until August....

An overnight backpacking trip in Zion. What would be a good backpacking trip that wouldn't involve anything technical? I do want to do the subway also, but that might be a separate trip, making sure I'm with some people who have done it. Maybe in 2013, as I'm going to try to make it an annual trek. I think I've read some reports of some good backpacks ending up with a hike up Angel's Landing and at the Grotto... if we can work out a shuttle or something, that might be ideal (where would we start?)

And of course, Coyote Gulch. I'm overwhelmed by all of the possibilities (and images). What would be a good way to start for two people who are not from the area? I am pretty good with maps and GPS and routefinding...

I'd also like to see/camp at Alstrom Point too, if possible.

I need to start putting together a list of gear that I'd need to get (I also need to start getting gear for summer backpacking here in the White Mountains. I'm assuming a lot of the stuff will be useable here and there, but I'm sure there are some differences in what I'd want to pack.

Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can give. It's appreciated!

 

[uintahiker]

And of course, Coyote Gulch. I'm overwhelmed by all of the possibilities (and images). What would be a good way to start for two people who are not from the area? I am pretty good with maps and GPS and routefinding...!

Probably the way to get the most of the goodies in Coyote Gulch is to go in 40-mile/Crack-in-the-wall. Hike down to the confluence, then up to Stevens Arch. Then hike up to Jacob Hamblin Arch. Exit at Jacob Hamblin. If you've got a GPS and plug on a few waypoints it's pretty hard to mess up. The scramble up the fin at Jacob Hamblin does have some exposure, but it's not difficult by any means.

 

[jdgibney]

Probably the way to get the most of the goodies in Coyote Gulch is to go in 40-mile/Crack-in-the-wall. Hike down to the confluence, then up to Stevens Arch. Then hike up to Jacob Hamblin Arch. Exit at Jacob Hamblin. If you've got a GPS and plug on a few waypoints it's pretty hard to mess up. The scramble up the fin at Jacob Hamblin does have some exposure, but it's not difficult by any means.

Thanks for responding. I really hope the weather cooperates and we're able to do this. What's a reasonable amount of time to plan to do this? (reasonable meaning leisurely )

Also, what kind of footwear would one need to hike in the Gulch assuming it will be at least partially wet?

 

[intuitive cat]

i would definitely suggest some footwear that you can get wet. not only are water shoes better for crossings and wading, but they tend to have stickier soles that help with steeper slickrock pitches.

 

[jdgibney]

i would definitely suggest some footwear that you can get wet. not only are water shoes better for crossings and wading, but they tend to have stickier soles that help with steeper slickrock pitches.

Thanks!. Do you have any suggestions on brands/models? I've been happy with my vasque mid top hiking boots, for both when i was out there last (pretty much dry) and hiking here in the White Mountains of NH, but don't know the first thing about water shoes...

 

[intuitive cat]

Thanks!. Do you have any suggestions on brands/models? I've been happy with my vasque mid top hiking boots, for both when i was out there last (pretty much dry) and hiking here in the White Mountains of NH, but don't know the first thing about water shoes...

The water shoe selection has really grown over the last couple of years. I do mostly day hiking out here including a lot of creek hiking, and hiking the Escalante River always involves multiple river crossings. At first I relied on boots and sandals, but sandals allow too much debris under the foot & boots tend to just fill up with water (i only made that mistake once when doing an unplanned day hike in boulder creek).
I am not sure how avoidable or how deep the flow in Coyote Gulch is as I have not hiked it yet.
(i'm sure other members can answer that question)
You may be most comfortable wearing your Vasques for the majority of the hike to help support pack weight & carry a pair of light water water shoes for the wet sections. The bonus of water shoes is that they are extremely breathable and will keep your feet much cooler than boots. They tend to not have as much arch support and no ankle support, though.

I have 2 pair: one pair made by Keen (Cimarron II) which are great for people with wider feet & have the beefiest protection and stiffest sole I've found in a water shoe. They do not have the best wet stone traction though. my other pair are made by Teva (model i have is unfortunately discontinued but they now have multiple models). very light weight, drain and dry quickly, and have their 'spider rubber' soles.
I wear short neoprene socks with them, as the water out here tends to be chilly.
If you do a google search for water shoes you should see a wide variety. sift through and see what appeals to you. Most outdoor footwear companies are making water shoes now. Vasque makes one called the "Watergate" which has an enclosed front and open sandal type back.

of the options you are interested in in terms of your southern utah hiking, Coyote Gulch & Zion are the only places where you would encounter water.

 

[jdgibney]

I appreciate the info, cat! So water shoes and neoprene socks are a must...

I'll be checking over the backpacking lists on here to get more ideas as I really am a newb outside of day hikes and even then I'm still pretty green... I appreciate all the help!

 

[Yellowstone 1]

Look into some of the shoes suggested on this thread Water Shoes.

 

[intuitive cat]

I appreciate the info, cat! So water shoes and neoprene socks are a must...

I'll be checking over the backpacking lists on here to get more ideas as I really am a newb outside of day hikes and even then I'm still pretty green... I appreciate all the help!

I wouldn't say a 'must' but they can certainly help with comfort.

 

[intuitive cat]

Look into some of the shoes suggested on this thread Water Shoes.

just read that and for some reason had spaced on the 5.10 canyoneers. pricey but excellent. getting a pair myself this season.