Halls Creek and Muley Twist

Breathtaking photos! Your photos really did capture how outstandingly tall everything was. Definitely made me want to visit.
 
Glasterpiece said:
What's on tap for this year?
Click to expand...

Well if you fancy 2-2 1/2 days in Vermillion cliffs national monument (the Sand Hills) some time between aug 20 & 25 & we can get a 2nd 4WDer to be safe in the sandy bits (perhaps Paul?) then I’m probably up for that. The family have a room in Kanab


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ross said:
Well if you fancy 2-2 1/2 days in Vermillion cliffs national monument (the Sand Hills) some time between aug 20 & 25 & we can get a 2nd 4WDer to be safe in the sandy bits (perhaps Paul?) then I’m probably up for that. The family have a room in Kanab


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Sounds like fun. Keep me posted. There are some great overlook roads down there. Check out the link and tell me if this is the area. There is a map after all the pictures.

https://www.offroaddance.com/northeast-overlooks-vermilion-cliffs-nm-az-english/
 
Ross said:
Word of warning for those saying they want to do it. Make sure you get your overnight permit from the visitor centre. There was a ruthless ranger out there, ticketing everyone who didn't have one and it was something like $250. I'm sure she checks vehicles left at the trailhead. And there's a no hitching rule in the park which is bad news on hikes like Lower Muley Twist where the exit is different to the entry if you don't have a shuttle. One couple of Hayduke trailers had run into a problem or got lost and had little water and so wanted to hitch out the park to Boulder and she got them too. They were expected to walk about 50 miles!
Click to expand...

The ranger you interacted with is absolutely wrong about the no hitching rule. There are a number of exceptions. I spoke with a Cap Reef Ranger the other day and he passed along this info:

Federal Districts
Note:All land regulated by the National Park service prohibits hitchhiking under the Code of Federal Regulations Title 36 section 4.31: Hitchhiking or soliciting transportation is prohibited except in designated areas and under conditions established by the superintendent.

  • Zion National Park
Hitchhiking is allowed only in established roadside pullouts.

  • Bryce Canyon National Park
4.31 has not been amended here, so hitchhiking is prohibited.

  • Capitol Reef National Park
Hitchhiking is allowed on park roads in locations where a hazard is not created. Hitchhikers must stand on the road shoulder and not on the pavement. Obstructing traffic is prohibited.

  • Glen Canyon National Recreation Area
4.31 has not been amended here, so hitchhiking is prohibited.

  • Canyonlands National Park
4.31 has not been amended here, so hitchhiking is prohibited.

  • Arches National Park
4.31 has not been amended here, so hitchhiking is prohibited.

Here is an excerpt from Cap Reef's Superintendent:


A. SECTION 4.31 – HITCHHIKING


1. Hitchhiking is permitted on park roads under the following conditions:


a) In locations where a hazard is not created.


b) Hitchhikers must stand on the road shoulder and not on the pavement or traveled portion of the roadway.


c) Obstructing traffic is prohibited.




Sounds like one of those loose cannon power tripping rangers........No shortage of them about.
 
Last edited:
In the Hayduke FB group there were similar reports of a very harsh CP Ranger (woman) and associated fees for some camping w/o a permit last year.

BUT... evidently the park contacted Mike Coronella (Hayduke co-author) and told him to spread the word that starting this year (2018) Capitol Reef will allow thru-hikers on the Hayduke (and possibly others) to obtain a permit # by emailing the park. I have yet to know if anyone has done this successfully, but it sounds as if it's a step in the right direction.

edit: just looked, and there is some info now on the CR site:
https://www.nps.gov/care/planyourvisit/backcountrycamping.htm
 
Glasterpiece said:
Sounds like fun. Keep me posted. There are some great overlook roads down there. Check out the link and tell me if this is the area. There is a map after all the pictures.

https://www.offroaddance.com/northeast-overlooks-vermilion-cliffs-nm-az-english/
Click to expand...

Yes. That area. I was most interested in the area within that road loop. There are several maybe mile diameter nice areas all within 2-3 miles of each other. Will email you a photocopied Page with them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ross said:
Word of warning for those saying they want to do it. Make sure you get your overnight permit from the visitor centre. There was a ruthless ranger out there, ticketing everyone who didn't have one and it was something like $250. I'm sure she checks vehicles left at the trailhead. And there's a no hitching rule in the park which is bad news on hikes like Lower Muley Twist where the exit is different to the entry if you don't have a shuttle. One couple of Hayduke trailers had run into a problem or got lost and had little water and so wanted to hitch out the park to Boulder and she got them too. They were expected to walk about 50 miles!
Click to expand...

canadug said:
The ranger you interacted with is absolutely wrong about the no hitching rule. There are a number of exceptions. I spoke with a Cap Reef Ranger the other day and he passed along this info:

Federal Districts
Note:All land regulated by the National Park service prohibits hitchhiking under the Code of Federal Regulations Title 36 section 4.31: Hitchhiking or soliciting transportation is prohibited except in designated areas and under conditions established by the superintendent.

  • Zion National Park
Hitchhiking is allowed only in established roadside pullouts.

  • Bryce Canyon National Park
4.31 has not been amended here, so hitchhiking is prohibited.

  • Capitol Reef National Park
Hitchhiking is allowed on park roads in locations where a hazard is not created. Hitchhikers must stand on the road shoulder and not on the pavement. Obstructing traffic is prohibited.

  • Glen Canyon National Recreation Area
4.31 has not been amended here, so hitchhiking is prohibited.

  • Canyonlands National Park
4.31 has not been amended here, so hitchhiking is prohibited.

  • Arches National Park
4.31 has not been amended here, so hitchhiking is prohibited.

Here is an excerpt from Cap Reef's Superintendent:


A. SECTION 4.31 – HITCHHIKING


1. Hitchhiking is permitted on park roads under the following conditions:


a) In locations where a hazard is not created.


b) Hitchhikers must stand on the road shoulder and not on the pavement or traveled portion of the roadway.


c) Obstructing traffic is prohibited.




Sounds like one of those loose cannon power tripping rangers........No shortage of them about.
Click to expand...

While I'm sure many people in LE are on a loose cannon power trips, it's not particularly fair to affix that label to someone who is doing her job under conditions of which you have no specific knowledge. Calling someone a Nazi is beyond the ken and in extremely poor taste imo.

Dealing with the public in a national park can be unbelievably taxing at times, most particularly when informing said public of regulations which they should have noted before they ventured out exploring in a regulated area, then citing them for transgressions. Park rangers can get called awful names, not to mention things like sometimes literally get shot at since we live in a country where carrying a gun is available to most of the general public, simply for enforcing rules that are up to the public to know about beforehand. Also, being a woman in a possibly heated situation can be even more precarious. Being an average- or small-sized woman, even one who carries a badge and a gun, when facing down people who are breaking the rules and might possibly go off completely unhinged in response to being called out, can be very frightening. Many female LEs wear a very strict/stern public face and mannerism for precisely that reason. They truly have no idea if they're dealing with normal people or perhaps someone who is just itching for a fight.

Sure, honest mistakes can happen, and often visitors do things spur of the moment and have no access to an area's rules before they decide to go hike/camp/whatever in that place. (Which is not an excuse, just saying I know it can happen.) But something like getting an overnight permit should be the very first thing anyone who plans to camp overnight in a national park should think about.

I have zero sympathy for anyone who got a $250 ticket for not complying with the extremely simple task of getting an overnight backcountry permit when that's exactly what they planned to do: camp overnight in a national park's backcountry.

As for hitchhiking, do you know for certain that the people who got a ticket were not, in fact, disobeying the regulations? Do you know for a fact they were in a location where a hazard is not created and thus unfairly ticketed? Do you know for a fact that they were not standing on the road shoulder, that they were not on the pavement or traveled portion of the roadway? Do you know for a fact that they were not obstructing traffic? What I'm saying here is that you might not know the details of the situation, and I'm guessing the ranger did. Hence why she ticketed them. Saying she is wrong about no hitching is incorrect. I'd wager she knows the regulations far better than anyone on this forum.

I am often frustrated with national park regulations myself. For example, having outfitted in Capitol Reef for years, for others as well as for myself, I was often irritated that I had to jump through many more hoops while the general public got a pass on some things. I understand being annoyed at the rules. But seriously, those regulations are there for reasons. And if they're not enforced, why bother making them in the first place? Frankly, I will be the first to report people if I happen to see them doing things that are not cool. I will (and I have) take photos of license plates and report them if they clearly are related to people breaking the rules. (For example, having a campout literally right at the base of the Temples, obliviously taking a dog on the trails, willfully defacing the rocks, etc etc etc.)

Capitol Reef's visitation has grown in enormous surges every year for quite some time now. The staffing has not been able to keep pace. They simply are not able to be everywhere, to see everything. But when they do, they are simply doing their jobs by enforcing the regulations. Getting angry about that, calling someone a freaking Nazi, calling her nasty, is not helping the situation at all.

Full disclosure: I am friends with the permanent LEs in Capitol Reef. I'm relatively certain I know which one is being referred to in this thread, and I suppose I could find out for sure by asking them. But that's neither here nor there. The point is, comply with regulations. If you don't like the regulations in national parks (and I agree, some of them I dislike as well), find out what you can do to change things. Heck, just call the park in question and ask why a certain regulation exists, and perhaps you will gain a greater understanding of it.

Last note: great photos and trip report, @Ross. Halls is a stunning area.
 
Ah, one more interesting piece of information: if this is the same ranger I think it is (and I'm sure it is), I'd like you all to know that she is the one who greased the wheels for being able to get the overnight permits online. So in addition to doing her job, she also really helped out a bunch of backpackers by making the permit process easier for everyone.

It is so easy to defame someone while knowing not a single thing about them or the situation, no?
 
JulieKT said:
It is so easy to defame someone while knowing not a single thing about them or the situation, no?
Click to expand...

as long as you're pointing this out, you might consider that knowing some one is not the same as knowing how they acted in a particular situation that you yourself were not party to.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top