Government shutdown??

Nick said:
An ironic footnote for me in this whole gov shutdown crap. The first time I have ever laid eyes on the Grand Canyon was yesterday from the air at one of the only times in history when it is closed to visitors. Haha!

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You've got to see it Nick! I avoided the Grand Canyon until this year because it's so touristy. I finally gave in and went in February, not expecting a lot. I fell in love with it! It's mesmerizing! There's nothing that can describe what it feels like to stand at the edge and realizing you're looking into a billion years of history. And there aren't many people there in February so that might be a good time to go if you hate crowds.
 
ashergrey said:
Utah's governor says he's reached an agreement with Interior to reopen some parks using state money.
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I just read something similar for Arizona and Colorado. Any idea when they will open?
 
Seldom Seen Anderson said:
The scariest thing is this whole lands fiasco is just going to empower the sagebrush rebels exponentially.
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This is exactly what I thought when I heard the plan for counties/states to reopen the parks on their own. Utah's effort to seize control of federal lands will look a lot different in court when they can portray themselves as saviors.
 
Laura said:
The part about the shutdown killing the local businesses that depend on the national parks kills me.
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This is the quietest Moab has been in October that I can recall. It's not crazy like it usually is. All hotels seem to have vacancies and are only $50-60/night, which is usually their off-season prices. Lots of cancellations after the parks shut down.
 
IntrepidXJ said:
This is the quietest Moab has been in October that I can recall. It's not crazy like it usually is. All hotels seem to have vacancies and are only $50-60/night, which is usually their off-season prices. Lots of cancellations after the parks shut down.
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I was there last weekend and it seemed pretty normal for this time of year to me. Maybe that was early enough in the shutdown that there were still a bunch of people in town who couldn't cancel plans though. The trails we hiked definitely saw above average use, but I expected that to be the case with the parks closed.
 
Seldom Seen Anderson said:
The scariest thing is this whole lands fiasco is just going to empower the sagebrush rebels exponentially.
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I am one of the old Sage Brush crowd, and proud of it. But don't feel empowered much. Exponentially? Not by orders of magnitude... If you find this current turn of events "scary", you must scare awful easy.

BOOO!!!

Did I make ya jump? Hahahahahaha!

What's funny/ironic, is how much some of you "Sage Brush Rebel" haters were sounding an awful lot like we did, back in the day. It's all well and good until it is YOUR way of life and YOUR access that is being jacked around by the Feds. Then all the sudden it's not so cool anymore?

I never did think it was cool. Still don't. Hate on me all you want for it. I can take it :D.

- DAA
 
DAA said:
I am one of the old Sage Brush crowd, and proud of it. But don't feel empowered much. Exponentially? Not by orders of magnitude... If you find this current turn of events "scary", you must scare awful easy.

BOOO!!!

Did I make ya jump? Hahahahahaha!

What's funny/ironic, is how much some of you "Sage Brush Rebel" haters were sounding an awful lot like we did, back in the day. It's all well and good until it is YOUR way of life and YOUR access that is being jacked around by the Feds. Then all the sudden it's not so cool anymore?

I never did think it was cool. Still don't. Hate on me all you want for it. I can take it :D.

- DAA
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I don't think anyone wants to hate on you Dave. The concern that many outdoor lovers have with the Sage Brush ideals is what happens when lands are returned to state control. There has been a revival of the movement in the last couple of years in Utah, and the representatives pushing for control of these lands have stated that they intend to open them up for mining, grazing, and drilling. Great for the economy, but not so great for the environment. Personally I'd rather see these lands protected, even if it means that they remain under federal control.
 
ashergrey said:
This is exactly what I thought when I heard the plan for counties/states to reopen the parks on their own. Utah's effort to seize control of federal lands will look a lot different in court when they can portray themselves as saviors.
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I thought of that, too (though I have no idea who exactly the "sage brush rebels" are, we get to read all about the state attempts at land grabs here in CA). Part of the deal was the Dept. of Interior clarified that the states would only be paying for services in the parks, the Feds weren't ceding any control or ownership of the land. I don't think it makes their (the state people's) legal argument any stronger, though they may get a little more local support in the short run.
 
DAA said:
I am one of the old Sage Brush crowd, and proud of it. But don't feel empowered much. Exponentially? Not by orders of magnitude... If you find this current turn of events "scary", you must scare awful easy.

BOOO!!!

Did I make ya jump? Hahahahahaha!

What's funny/ironic, is how much some of you "Sage Brush Rebel" haters were sounding an awful lot like we did, back in the day. It's all well and good until it is YOUR way of life and YOUR access that is being jacked around by the Feds. Then all the sudden it's not so cool anymore?

I never did think it was cool. Still don't. Hate on me all you want for it. I can take it :D.

- DAA
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You raise some good points...a crisis often leads to strange bedfellows!

When I think of sagebrush rebels I think of Mike Noel from Kanab. I Maybe I shouldnt lump all of yall in with him? or should I? Maybe explain what and who a sagebrush rebel is to you? I am 30 and most of what I know of the rebellion comes from history books and personal ideology.

I dont trust Utah to manage public lands. The Governor has several times demonstrated he would rather develop than protect and preserve. Can you image the legislature managing Zion, er Energy Solutions presents Zion State Park? ;) In Utah if its not profitable its not working (except for the liquor stores Im told). With that mentality Utah has threatened or closed many fine state parks.
But with the nation in a deep recession and state budgets tight, legislators have been slashing general taxpayer dollars going into facilities such as Edge of the Cedars. Park managers such as the Blanding facility's Teri Paul are being told their facilities must make more money or face closure....With staff cuts, popular programs such as May's Four Corners Indian Arts Festival that fills Blanding motels and brings in revenue may be eliminated.
Paul questions whether a museum such as Edge of the Cedars should be expected to make money.
"Museums are public service institutions," she said. "Their purpose is to educate, inspire, even astound us. The value to the public is far-reaching and worthy of public support. No one would ever expect a library to make money. A museum is a library for objects of cultural value, a repository of ideas, a keeper of culture. A society that loses sight of the value of knowing the past loses sight of knowing themselves. That society misses the opportunity to preserve the best of what they are and loses the opportunity to learn what it could be."....Sen. David Hinkins, R-Orangeville, who is co-chairman of the appropriations committee that controls state parks budget, said he doesn't know if heritage parks can ever be self-sustaining and thinks they will always require some cultural funding from the state. He wonders if some funds for parks such as Edge of the Cedars should come out of the education budget since they help educate hundreds of Utah students.
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This is why I dont trust Utah and her legislatures!

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile/52057909-80/artifacts-blanding-cedars-edge.html.csp
 
Laura said:
I thought of that, too (though I have no idea who exactly the "sage brush rebels" are, we get to read all about the state attempts at land grabs here in CA). Part of the deal was the Dept. of Interior clarified that the states would only be paying for services in the parks, the Feds weren't ceding any control or ownership of the land. I don't think it makes their (the state people's) legal argument any stronger, though they may get a little more local support in the short run.
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The Sage Brush Rebels, or at least the most recent incarnation of them, are trying to get the government to turn over millions of acres of federally owned land to the state. At face value that doesn't sound so bad, but they want the land so they can essentially pillage it. The number one targets? The Uinta Basin and Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument. Why? For oil, of course. The reason that the move to reopen the parks through state funding makes people nervous is that this may help the rebellion gain traction with voters. If enough people decide that the feds aren't capable of managing these lands, and they are turned over to the state you might as well kiss them goodbye.
 
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