Gaia GPS alternatives

[Aldaron]

Yeah, I don't play that game. After 10 years of use you would be in it for $1000. If you manage to stay alive and active, they could really get some good money out of you.

 

[Nick]

Yeah, I don't play that game. After 10 years of use you would be in it for $1000. If you manage to stay alive and active, they could really get some good money out of you.

There's a $100 per year plan?

 

[slc_dan]

I was thinking about this yesterday, and there are a couple of ways to justify, or not the spending. It all comes down to that magical device-the smart phone.

On one hand, you could think of the phone as a standalone device-only for GPS. If you use it as such, you could easily get what? 5 years? 10 years out of it? If you bought Gaia, never updated it, or your phone for that matter, it would continue to work. This isn't that much different from a Garmin style device, right? They used to be around $300, I know the phone isn't included in the Gaia app money, but would you expect to get over 10 years out of a Garmin style device? I only got one trip out of mine, the interface was way too much of a pain in the ass, I just didn't use it.

When Apps first came out, it was pretty revolutionary. Buy an app for 1, 2, 5, or maybe 10-20 for something, HAVE IT FOR LIFE!!! The problem is that as our phones are upgraded, or changed, that app isn't going to work. It costs money to rewrite that code, change it for the new platform, upgrade it along the way.

I have never had a problem purchasing software when it's written as systems upgrade. I don't mind buying good piece of software, as it gets upgraded. I think that's where most of us have an issue bridging that gap.

The subscription service take away that ability to upgrade when you want to. You now have to constantly upgrade when they want you to. I wonder if you'll be able to "subscribe" for a year, not update the software, and use if for a couple years. Would that even work?

As a guy that doesn't use a smart phone in every day life, I get it, both ways. Gaia needs to keep the lights on, and the constant updates/upgrades that are prevalent in the smart phone infrastructure makes that need a little more necessary than years past.

At this point, I don't think the cost difference is too much. $10 a year? that's $100 over 10 years? yeah, that's fine to me. $30 a years is a bit much for me though, and I don't need the extra's available. So I guess they are fitting the market for me.

 

[Dave]

They have another option: the use of in-app purchases. You want to unlock certain features like new map layers? Five more bucks. You want the ability to import or export waypoints? Five bucks. Don't want to see ads while downloading maps? Five bucks.

The struggle with software pricing in a smartphone age is not unique to Gaia. Their app was already priced "high" by App Store standards, and that's silly. But a GPS app seems an odd candidate to me for the subscription price model. I'd rather see them launch a new version priced at say $50 and then prove why it's worth the cost.

 

[Nick]

So to counter the subscription model, when would it be okay for an app maker to disco one version and leave it unsupported to release another paid version? For $20, how long would be a satisfactory amount of time for an app to work without ongoing updates?

 

[slc_dan]

They have another option: the use of in-app purchases. You want to unlock certain features like new map layers? Five more bucks. You want the ability to import or export waypoints? Five bucks. Don't want to see ads while downloading maps? Five bucks.

The struggle with software pricing in a smartphone age is not unique to Gaia. Their app was already priced "high" by App Store standards, and that's silly. But a GPS app seems an odd candidate to me for the subscription price model. I'd rather see them launch a new version priced at say $50 and then prove why it's worth the cost.

I agree on the later, but not the former. I HATE in app purchases. THE WORST.

Part of the problem of an app is not just upgrading, but keeping it working in an ever changing environment. IOS has pretty significant changes every 3 months or so. I don't even accept most of the updates, as I really only use an old iphone 5 (no service), as a GPS, and internet browser.

I for one will be riding Gaia without the subscription for as long as possible. Maybe something bare-bones, stripped down will replace it when I can't use Gaia any longer.

 

[ramblinman]

Does anyone use Backcountry Navigator? I have been testing out the free version, and while I've never used it in the backcountry it seems suitable for basic functions like finding location and adding waypoints. The interface is clunky for sure, but as I've never tried anything else it's fine with me.

 

[Upgrayedd]

So to counter the subscription model, when would it be okay for an app maker to disco one version and leave it unsupported to release another paid version? For $20, how long would be a satisfactory amount of time for an app to work without ongoing updates?

Honestly, for the life of the OS that it was released/purchased at, that's literally it. Maintaining databases, constantly rewriting and upgrading code/the app, etc is expensive. I don't have a problem with a $10 a year subscription model and I bought the original at $20 and have more than received my money's worth over the past three years of use.

 

[Aldaron]

There's a $100 per year plan?

It looks like that's what they just announced (or $95.40)...and that's the cheapest option:

https://www.gaia.com/plan-selection

I'd be okay with $10 a year...I agree with @slc_dan that they have to stay in business somehow, and I'm certainly getting more value out of their app than I would a $300 Garmin GPS. Shoot, I'd be willing to pay $200 for the app. But I don't think the subscription app would still work if you stop paying...that's one of the big deal breakers for me. I'd even be okay with a $50 per year plan as long as they would let me still use the software without updates if I ever chose to stop paying.

I think their blog post basically says it all: we can't get money from new customers so we have to start getting it from the old customers.

But they're letting the old app still work, I guess, so I'll keep using it. But I'm still using MotionX-GPS for my primary navigation.

 

[Upgrayedd]

It looks like that's what they just announced (or $95.40)...and that's the cheapest option:

https://www.gaia.com/plan-selection

I'd be okay with $10 a year...I agree with @slc_dan that they have to stay in business somehow, and I'm certainly getting more value out of their app than I would a $300 Garmin GPS. Shoot, I'd be willing to pay $200 for the app. But I don't think the subscription app would still work if you stop paying...that's one of the big deal breakers for me. I'd even be okay with a $50 per year plan as long as they would let me still use the software without updates if I ever chose to stop paying.

I think their blog post basically says it all: we can't get money from new customers so we have to start getting it from the old customers.

But they're letting the old app still work, I guess, so I'll keep using it. But I'm still using MotionX-GPS for my primary navigation.

Wrong Gaia. Base membership is $10 a year, the premium is $30 a year.


https://www.gaiagps.com

https://www.gaiagps.com/member/

 

[Dave]

I agree on the later, but not the former. I HATE in app purchases. THE WORST

To be clear, I'm not saying I'd like to see IAP in Gaia, only that there are alternatives to subscription pricing.

 

[Aldaron]

Wrong Gaia. Base membership is $10 a year, the premium is $30 a year.


https://www.gaiagps.com

https://www.gaiagps.com/member/

That's hilarious. I swear I got to that page from their page somehow...but I'm on the road on my phone, so there's no telling what I did!

 

[Wyatt Carson]

but would you expect to get over 10 years out of a Garmin style device?

We have used our Etrex Legend C for 13 years now and it is still going. We use it hiking at least twice a week every week of the year and on backpacking trips that are longer. But I really never expected anything I guess, just bought it for $240 or something like that on sale and have used it ever since. The complete map set was another hundred if I remember right. Now watch it die tomorrow. ha ha

 

[SKLund]

I was able to test my Gaia GPS on a Kyocera Duraforce Pro phone against a Garmin 62st hand held today. It was a very short test. I started my hike in an area that is very slow to get a pure GPS signal. The Garmin took 7 minutes to get 41 foot sensitivity. The phone had 10 foot sensitivity in about a minute. I assume this is due to cell tower/satellite triangulation. My companions were keen to get going and ran out of patience with my GPS obsession so I powered off the Garmin and recorded a track with the Gaia. It worked very well.

In the future I want to run a series of tests where I hike the same route while recording on the Garmin and Gaia simultaneously. I'll then measure the tracks with multiple methods. The outcomes are then averaged for the best accuracy showing which is closest to true.

The big caveat I have with the phone based service is that it runs down battery power really fast. There is no way I would take it on a backpack except as a backup.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I was able to test my Gaia GPS on a Kyocera Duraforce Pro phone against a Garmin 62st hand held today. It was a very short test. I started my hike in an area that is very slow to get a pure GPS signal. The Garmin took 7 minutes to get 41 foot sensitivity. The phone had 10 foot sensitivity in about a minute. I assume this is due to cell tower/satellite triangulation. My companions were keen to get going and ran out of patience with my GPS obsession so I powered off the Garmin and recorded a track with the Gaia. It worked very well.

In the future I want to run a series of tests where I hike the same route while recording on the Garmin and Gaia simultaneously. I'll then measure the tracks with multiple methods. The outcomes are then averaged for the best accuracy showing which is closest to true.

The big caveat I have with the phone based service is that it runs down battery power really fast. There is no way I would take it on a backpack except as a backup.

There are ways to manage battery life that helps greatly. Tracking your route will kill your battery since it's constantly using the gps. Turn on airplane mode and do your tests again, my iPhone is much faster to lock on to satellites than the garmins I've used. I go about 3 days with my iPhone 6s using gaia, the camera and music. If I plan on being out longer I bring a battery brick.

 

[Dustin Gent]

I've used the Earthmate App - and it is FANTASTIC. Delorme was bought by Garmin some 16 months ago or so - now it is a Garmin product. $29 a year, but you have access to all maps from Delorme/Garmin. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/577212

 

[SKLund]

I've used the Earthmate App - and it is FANTASTIC. Delorme was bought by Garmin some 16 months ago or so - now it is a Garmin product. $29 a year, but you have access to all maps from Delorme/Garmin. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/577212

I'd really like to see how this stacks up against Gaia. Better still, I'd like to have a Caltopo phone app.

 

[SKLund]

I was thinking about this yesterday, and there are a couple of ways to justify, or not the spending. It all comes down to that magical device-the smart phone.

On one hand, you could think of the phone as a standalone device-only for GPS. If you use it as such, you could easily get what? 5 years? 10 years out of it? If you bought Gaia, never updated it, or your phone for that matter, it would continue to work. This isn't that much different from a Garmin style device, right? They used to be around $300, I know the phone isn't included in the Gaia app money, but would you expect to get over 10 years out of a Garmin style device? I only got one trip out of mine, the interface was way too much of a pain in the ass, I just didn't use it.

When Apps first came out, it was pretty revolutionary. Buy an app for 1, 2, 5, or maybe 10-20 for something, HAVE IT FOR LIFE!!! The problem is that as our phones are upgraded, or changed, that app isn't going to work. It costs money to rewrite that code, change it for the new platform, upgrade it along the way.

I have never had a problem purchasing software when it's written as systems upgrade. I don't mind buying good piece of software, as it gets upgraded. I think that's where most of us have an issue bridging that gap.

The subscription service take away that ability to upgrade when you want to. You now have to constantly upgrade when they want you to. I wonder if you'll be able to "subscribe" for a year, not update the software, and use if for a couple years. Would that even work?

As a guy that doesn't use a smart phone in every day life, I get it, both ways. Gaia needs to keep the lights on, and the constant updates/upgrades that are prevalent in the smart phone infrastructure makes that need a little more necessary than years past.

At this point, I don't think the cost difference is too much. $10 a year? that's $100 over 10 years? yeah, that's fine to me. $30 a years is a bit much for me though, and I don't need the extra's available. So I guess they are fitting the market for me.

Excellent points overall and I think I'm going to let the Gaia go after a year.

 

[Perry]

....Better still, I'd like to have a Caltopo phone app.

^ this!


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[Venchka]

In summary,
Is there anything comparable to GAIA for the iOS, iPhones, in a fixed price app?
Thanks.
Wayne


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