Bears

stderr said:
May be a little late to the party - but what's everyone's feelings on Yosemite's and SeKi's ban on bear spray? I'm sort of amazed that they instituted these policies. It was drilled into my head from a pretty young age that bear spray was the best solution to potential bear encounters - both for the bear and the human. Two family friends are actually rangers there, but every time I've run into them I always forget to ask about their opinions on the policy. I know Tom Smith was flabbergasted when he heard about it.
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I think they justify the ban based on the fact that no one has been killed by a bear in YNP. Also, Rangers from that area of the country are much more concerned about the bear's safety than yours. There may also be issues with bear spray we are not aware of (tourists using it like insect repellent).
 
Crazy. I would pack it anyway, screw the rangers. I've never been in a car accident, but I still wear my seat belt.
 
As others have said in other articles, the Park Service is setting themselves up for an eventual lawsuit. even a scratch from a curious black bear could result in litigation. Pretty weird decision and reminds me that's it's more than just naive tourists who view our parks as Disneyland. It is still legal to carry guns (it's just illegal to fire them) so carry a .50 cal Desert Eagle on your belt just to torque the rangers a bit. Just do not bring the gun into any federal building in the park, it gets awkward.

Edited to avoid arrests.
 
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Not as critical for black bears....they are not "generally" a problem like griz
 
Bob said:
Not as critical for black bears....they are not "generally" a problem like griz
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Critical? No. A really good idea? Definitely.

Black bears can become huge problems. Yosemite has a long history of that.
 
I have always supported the NPS and Rangers. But in this case it is stupid that a sidearm is legal but spray is not.
 
pstm13 said:
I have always supported the NPS and Rangers. But in this case it is stupid that a sidearm is legal but spray is not.
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At the very least, wouldn't they just put the same restrictions on bear spray as they do on firearms - can carry it but can't use it? And if you did get into a situation where you had to use it, you wouldn't really care if it's illegal
 
LarryBoy said:
At the very least, wouldn't they just put the same restrictions on bear spray as they do on firearms - can carry it but can't use it? And if you did get into a situation where you had to use it, you wouldn't really care if it's illegal
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It sure doesn't do much to change the classic stereotype of federal regulations.
 
We deal with Black bears here in Colorado pretty frequently, at least you do if you or your neighbors leave any trash outside. In my experience they run at the first sight of people and any noise gets them out of the area. Around Winter Park where I car camp on the weekends it is not uncommon to see a bear or two as well. I suppose using bear spray would be an option if you were charged but I would be pretty hard pressed to see these urban bears doing anything other then digging through trash and pooping on the deck.

The bears in Yosemite are probably pretty used to humans, and I would suspect the real danger there is humans following or cornering the bears, possibly to use the bear spray they read about online. I can see all kinds of folks car camping in their rental, enjoying the great outdoors, and over reacting at the sight of a black bear looking at them from out of the dumpster. Crap, I bet the rangers were getting calls about sprayed bears multiple times a day and in the Springtime, it was chemical warfare. It is more of a how do we live in harmony with the bears situation. Many of the folks here in Colorado don't even report black bears anymore because of the one strike policy.

Obviously, If I was way up in the Sangre De Cristo's and I came across a black bear I would not feel this way. But Yosemite is a long way away from wilderness and the animals in that park are almost tame. I support the ban.
 
Nurrgle said:
Obviously, If I was way up in the Sangre De Cristo's and I came across a black bear I would not feel this way. But Yosemite is a long way away from wilderness and the animals in that park are almost tame. I support the ban.
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I'll respectfully disagree. I've lived in some pretty bear heavy areas - Yellowstone (when my father was a ranger there), Tahoe (own a cabin in Incline Village), and eastern Washington (Colville National Forest), and the threat from black bears generally comes when they associate humans with food - much like they do in Yosemite. Living in harmony with black bears is making them fearful of humans, the way they should be. It's when black bears become habituated to humans that you mainly encounter tragedy, either for the human or the bear.

I called my Dad today and he's going to talk to our family friends who work in Yosemite (one is the wilderness manager and the other is a backcountry ranger), and get their take. I'll update when I hear from him. He was surprised to hear about the ban, he wasn't aware of it before.

I fully support NPS and the rangers, and I highly, highly doubt if you were backpacking and ran into a ranger, that he or she would ticket you for possessing spray. My father's theory is that the rangers are so proactive against the bears in the tourist heavy areas (they use rubber bullets and bear spray liberally themselves), that they're trying to remove the chaotic element of allowing uneducated tourists to utilize it. It still seems odd for a park wide ban, though. All it takes is one mauling for the NPS, and therefore taxpayers, to be on the hook. And then you have a seriously injured (or dead) visitor, and a euthanized bear.
 
Rereading my post, tame is not the right term. Socialized might be, unafraid for sure.
 
pstm13 said:
I have always supported the NPS and Rangers. But in this case it is stupid that a sidearm is legal but spray is not.
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I support them too but at times the upper management and superintendent can get a bit silly. We have a popular canyon here where they ban bicycles from the parking lot a couple times a week. There is a great bike parking area with racks and everything, fenced off by itself. So you can't ride a bike to the canyon, park it and hike... but you can bring in an emissions spewing vehicle.

Does bear spray hurt bears in any way besides warding them away from humans or put anyone in danger somehow? A good explanation from the powers that be in Yosemite would be a good start. I don't get it. We might get to see someone fight that in court.
 
Wyatt Carson said:
Does bear spray hurt bears in any way besides warding them away from humans or put anyone in danger somehow? A good explanation from the powers that be in Yosemite would be a good start. I don't get it. We might get to see someone fight that in court.
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Some of these things are touched on in Tom Smith's NOLS video. In particular, bear spray is not bear repellent, it is actually a bear attractant if it is not sprayed in the nose or eyes. Another point was made about people using their bear spray for no reason, just checking to see if it worked or thinking that it was repellent. Somewhere it was mentioned that there was a procedure for weighing the bear spray cans. If a can was less than 3/4 full, it was discarded. I suspect that a lot of this may have to do with the idea that bears can become acclimatized to bear spray and it becomes ineffective.
 
Four years ago I came across a family of mensa rejects spraying a poor black bear sow and her cubs UP A TREE not far below Ampitheatre Lake here in GTNP. More or less just for the hades of it I guess. I got there just as their can emptied and I pointed out to them that they now have no spray if they NEEDED it and that they're lucky I was raised well enough to not soak them with my own can of spray . they were from San Jose, CA

I would guess a lot more of this gene pool shows up in Yosemite being so much closer to high population source which always seems to produce a higher number [not ratio] of posterior orifices. I'm speculating this has a lot to do with it. Also if the Rangers are actively spraying they do not want the bears developing a toleration of it.
 
I crossed paths with a black bear last weekend on the North Country Trail in way Northwestern WI. About 40 feet in front of me I stopped when I saw the pure ball of blackness moving slowing onto the trail. I stopped, a second later he stopped, looked up at me with those tiny eyes, took a sniff, and he was gone in flash. About 30 mph gone! When I first saw him I was thinking camera or bear spray also my eyes were scanning area for cubs. No cubs! My hand went for the spray. After how fast i saw that thing run, that bear could have covered that 40 feet in seconds. Not sure I would of had enough time for the bear spray. Not really afraid of black bears on trail around here. Concern is more so at night. So always always safe food handling and storage around here!
But anyhow it made for an exciting hike! No pics :(
 
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