Anyone ever seen black widow spiders in Utah?

I have only seen four in about 40 years of desert hiking.
 
Bob said:
I have only seen four in about 40 years of desert hiking.
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same here, and three of the sightings were Midget Faded Rattlesnakes. Only one of them was aggressive and hissing at me. All the other sightings were super cool. I really like snakes and am always glad to see one. At least with the non-venomous ones I have more luck and see them frequently
 
John Kerby said:
Well, again.....don't see it as hurting. I believe if someone went down with a bite, we'd be sending 2 guys for help, and the other 3 carrying him out. As fast as possible.
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Hurts your back carrying dead weight, and it may actually hurt. Another interesting article:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB124208165196508345

And some tidbits:

Wilderness enthusiasts often carry snake-bite kits, which makers say can treat a wound until help arrives. Scientists say the kits, which typically include suction devices and sometimes scalpels to drain the wound, may do more harm than good.
...
The suction devices are still under debate. One of the most popular devices, the Sawyer Extractor, sold by Sawyer Products Inc. of Safety Harbor, Fla., consists of a syringe-shaped chamber with a plunger that creates a vacuum. The company suggests leaving it on 10 to 15 minutes to extract the venom.

However, a study in pigs and one using radioactively labeled simulated venom injected into the thighs of eight human volunteers found the Sawyer Extractor ineffective. "It removes just a minute quantity of venom," says pig-study author Sean P. Bush, a professor of emergency medicine at California's Loma Linda University School of Medicine. Some doctors fear the deep suction could even worsen outcomes by killing skin at the wound site. The human study, published in 2004 by researchers at the University of California in Fresno, found that the device removed no more than 1% to 2% of mock venom from the leg.


That and you still probably have a better chance of hitting the lotto. Just sayin'...
 
Two of mine were in Paranuweep. One on the trail to Moonhouse. One in Canyonlands. Just need to be aware of your surroundings, hike smart.
 
Re; the "extractor";....the herpetologists at the Barry Goldwater range raved about them and convinced me to buy one around 1998. Since then I have seen evidence, like quoted here, that does not seem to support them working very well. I never tried it but they had used it for scorpion stings and claimed success. I suppose success stories with these will always be anecdotal like that.

Re; insect bites; they showed me an interesting article where a biologist had allowed insects to sting him and then scored the pain level. The lowest on his scale was the honeybee at 1 and the worst was a Tarantula Hawk, which I believe he scored a 5. Everything else was inbetween. I don't believe Black Widows were on the list. Int was a long time ago and I believe it was only stings.

Re black widows in Utah.....we even saw them in cold cache valley when I lived there. Interesting though, only in town.
 
A bee sting hurt much worse...initially!...than the copperhead bite. Bees freak me out, snakes still don't bother me...but bees...
 
We had terantula hawks in Eagle Mountain/tooele a couple years back. That was freaky.
 
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Nick said:
However, a study in pigs and one using radioactively labeled simulated venom injected into the thighs of eight human volunteers found the Sawyer Extractor ineffective. "It removes just a minute quantity of venom," says pig-study author Sean P. Bush, a professor of emergency medicine at California's Loma Linda University School of Medicine. Some doctors fear the deep suction could even worsen outcomes by killing skin at the wound site. The human study, published in 2004 by researchers at the University of California in Fresno, found that the device removed no more than 1% to 2% of mock venom from the leg.


That and you still probably have a better chance of hitting the lotto. Just sayin'...
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Spot on Nick.

At first glance an extractor seems intuitive - leading some to think it would actually work and at worst do no harm. Thinking off the top of my head, other things that, if considered, would explain why there's little chance it could work would be: depth of injection - let's say 1/4 - 1/2 inch deep that means (assuming arm/leg bite) it's in muscle tissue - get a syringe and inject yourself into a muscle and then try to suck it out. Or better yet, get a chicken breast, inject it with food coloring 1/2 inch deep and then try sucking it out - see what you get and that's dead tissue. In a live person any venom that is injected isn't sitting in some pocket doing nothing. Your body is reacting immediately to it. I would suggest any venom that is extracted was "spilled" near the surface during the bite.

Your experience may vary.
 
Correct.....more damage done by cutting and sucking inner skin layers..... Venom is injected at depth and by the time you get the suction on it it has dispersed. You may get a very small amount out. People still believe they are great, but they are aren't.....
 
The only time I really think about is when I go rock climbing/scrambling. I get a little nervous wedging my hands In dark cracks (Bats, spiders, snakes and mice) For the record I have never been bitten. :eek:
 
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