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Are you gonna stop buying high dollar boots and packs made from petroleum based materials?
 
No, it was an argument (or maybe a jab) cloaked as a rhetorical question. So let me ask you a question - are in favor of opening the Arctic? It kinda sounds like you might be. If so, state why, please, since the demand for oil has dropped precipitously since the pandemic.

Oil-and-gas drillers and oil-field services providers have been cutting jobs in massive numbers, amid a surge of bankruptcy filings, as both demand and prices collapsed. A month ago, Schlumberger, the giant US oil-field services provider, threw another 21,000 job cuts on top of that pile.
 
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Rockskipper said:
No, it was an argument (or maybe a jab) cloaked as a rhetorical question. So let me ask you a question - are in favor of opening the Arctic? It kinda sounds like you might be. If so, state why, please, since the demand for oil has dropped precipitously since the pandemic.

Oil-and-gas drillers and oil-field services providers have been cutting jobs in massive numbers, amid a surge of bankruptcy filings, as both demand and prices collapsed. A month ago, Schlumberger, the giant US oil-field services provider, threw another 21,000 job cuts on top of that pile.
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No I’m not for it, there are Wells all over Texas and Louisiana that hit and then were capped. There is no shortage of oil to be extracted.
My statement pointed to the fact that we get worked up about oil products depending on where they come from, and wether or not the products made from it are products I like.
 
shady grove said:
No I’m not for it, there are Wells all over Texas and Louisiana that hit and then were capped. There is no shortage of oil to be extracted.
My statement pointed to the fact that we get worked up about oil products depending on where they come from, and wether or not the products made from it are products I like.
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Fortunately a realively low percentage is used for plastic production, but the data is hard to come by now, as stated in the article I'll link below.

Plastics production accounts for about 4 percent of global oil production. That’s according to figures for 2012, so now it may well be higher.
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oilprice.com

How Much Crude Oil Does Plastic Production Really Consume? | OilPrice.com

The advantages of plastics over alternatives—cost and durability—will continue to drive demand for it even as governments around the world clamp down on single-use plastics
oilprice.com oilprice.com

And there's the issue of plastics pollution as well of course, but the conversation here centers around drilling for more oil, and most of that oil is going to be used for fuel in some form. So reducing fuel demand seems like it will have a much stronger effect than reducing plastics demand.
 
shady grove said:
Are you gonna stop buying high dollar boots and packs made from petroleum based materials?
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If I used a different pair of boots and backpack for each trip then you may have a point. But my boots last me a couple to a few years as do my backpacks.

And since you're curious, I pay extra on my energy bill each month to ensure the energy I consume in my house is generated by wind. I make a payment at the end of each year based on my carbon footprint for the year, and the payment goes towards a project that helps counter the overall population's carbon footprint. I keep my thermostat at what some may call ridiculous temps during the summer and winter to conserve energy. I don't drive unnecessarily if at all possible. While car shopping, I seriously considered a less fuel efficient four wheel drive, but decided I'd be a hypocrite to buy one, so I opted for better fuel efficiency and will sacrifice the ability to get to a number of places.

This isn't just about oil and gas. There's plenty of uranium mines that want to get into our pristine wilderness areas as well - particularly in SE Utah and Arizona. And that Uranium is used in large part to fuel nuclear power plants.

You'll notice my original statement said it's our demand for energy - not merely oil and gas. And energy use for things we continually need or use is far more detrimental to the cause than a one time purchase of an item or two that will be used over a very long period of time.
 
Hey we're all hypocrites here, myself as much as anyone. I accept my annual payoff from the oil companies up here that I try and spend on something that matters, like heating fuel (how's that for irony?). I have learned to accept my hypocrisy. And, for the most part, energy use and its solutions are subjects that are way more complex than my pea-brain can wrap itself around most of the time.

I certainly wish there were better options for traveling, but I am typically stuck with flying, which is a huge waste of energy, really. I drive 30, 50, 400+ miles to recreate. And I have twice committed the number one sin for anyone who considers themselves an environmentalist, which I certainly do. I have 2 kids. Best thing I have ever done, but really costly environment-wise.

As far as the ANWR 1002 area, it will eventually be developed, as will the NPR-A exploration be expanded dramatically. The longer we wait, the better the technology to extract it with less impact. If ANWR were approved tomorrow, it would take 10 or more years to start pulling oil out. There are going to be a lot of changes between now and then. Do I support drilling along the north coast? Heck, no, but that's where a lot of oil is. I really wish it were all in Texas, right around Dallas.

But I try and deal in reality, and as long as we travel and heat our homes & businesses on such a large scale, we're going to use oil in the foreseeable future. And yes, we should always seek out better ways to power our societies.

As morbid as it it, the only thing for a truly committed environmentalist to do is to kill themselves, and take as many others as they can. Who wants that?
 
Outdoor_Fool said:
As morbid as it it, the only thing for a truly committed environmentalist to do is to kill themselves, and take as many others as they can. Who wants that?
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I don't know about taking others but it has always been my opinion that a TRUE environmentalist would indeed commit suicide to limit their carbon footprint. Since we see little to none of that happening, those people have made a compromise. Where do we draw the line?

It seems to me that we never really address the real cause of most of our environmental problems. There are simply too many people on this planet. Everyone in the world could be driving a Prius and that probably would have no significant effect on the trajectory we are headed. I'm old and will not see where we are headed the next century but I don't think it's going to be pretty.
 
In 2001 I worked on a photovoltaic installation proposal for a ranch here in the Roaring Fork Valley that extracted hydrogen from water via the electricity from the PV panels, which would then power the homes and their cars. The PV panels were supported on steel cables that spanned a small canyon on the ranch. At $4M it was horrendously expensive, but it would have been the 1st residential use of this technology in the world.
The client decided to buy a Norman Rockwell painting instead.

We need to make sure that the people who are in charge of all the money in our world see PV as profitable. One way is to make drilling and mining less profitable (obviously), and by investing in alternative energy production technologies. We need national and local governments that are dedicated to these practices, that incentivizes and subsidizes the green technologies, at the expense of the extractive industries. Here in Pitkin County when you construct a building you are required to offset your energy consumption by either providing on site PV or by buying energy credits that invest in PV energy production elsewhere. You get credits for efficient building techniques, using sustainable building materials and practices.
We installed a 6KW PV system on our home in 2006, it cost a shit load of money, and it will never pay for itself, at least in my lifetime. But we have a $6 a month electricity bill for 4 months out of the year, and they look cool on our roof.
I don't think it is a given that ANWR will be developed. We need to change our way of living, either voluntarily now or by necessity in the not too distant future.
And BTW, the guy I worked for in 2001 patented the cable design and is now covering parking lots in the US, and starting to cover huge canals in India (with heavy governmental subsidies), thereby reducing evaporation while making electricity.

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Lol...... Cars, houses, cell phones, tvs, solar panels, wind turbines..... Everything is tied to the extraction of oil or minerals..... Get real.
 
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