Southern Utah Dirt

[Artemus]

Damn the manual, full steam ahead!!!!!

From Taco experience, the active traction control is the best and you leave it on and ignore it, the locking differential is outstanding but you only use it at very low speeds and when you suspect trouble, the limited slip differential, like the ATC is always on and forget it - it works for you all the time, downhill assist is useless and makes the truck sound like it is falling apart - you can feather the brake much better than the stupid computer it turns out, the kinetic thingamajig I have no experience with but sounds compelling and multi-terrain might be useful. Enough?

 

[Artemus]

How did the "sales experience" turn out?

 

[Artemus]

It really badly needs some red dirt.

 

[Dave]

All I mean is that while the gizmos are nice, the locker will become the only one that matters in particularly nasty conditions.

 

[Aldaron]

Yeah, I agree that the locking differential will probably make the biggest difference. The other stuff will probably end up just being things that are nice to have when I feel like being lazy. But the KDSS disengages the sway bars, and my understanding is that will allow more up and down movement of the wheels when one side is going over much higher or much lower terrain than the other side. So it decreases the chances that a tire will come off the ground when the other side is at an extreme angle. That could be nice.

The sales experience was good. Maybe I got screwed, but I don't FEEL like I got screwed, so that's a good thing!

 

[Aldaron]

It really badly needs some red dirt.

Give me a week!

 

[Nick]

The sales experience was good. Maybe I got screwed, but I don't FEEL like I got screwed, so that's a good thing!

And I'm pretty sure I'm getting at least a $5 gift certificate out of it, so that means it was great!!

How's the suspension? Anything special in there like the TRD Off Road package has?

 

[Aldaron]

How's the suspension? Anything special in there like the TRD Off Road package has?

I'm not sure. What's the TRD suspension have?

 

[Nick]

I'm not sure. What's the TRD suspension have?

Some fancy Billstein shocks or something. It's crazy smooth on washboard and such. One of the big differences between the TRD Off Road and TRD Sport in the Tacos. Man, looking at those 4Runners, I SO wish I could go back to one, but I just don't know what I'd do without that big cargo bay in the back to stuff things into... I'm totally jealous.

 

[Aldaron]

I just don't know what I'd do without that big cargo bay in the back to stuff things into.

Yeah, I debated that, also. I'd like to have that cargo space, but I also wasn't sure I wanted a bigger vehicle. It's always just trade-offs, I guess.

 

[Nick]

Yeah, I debated that, also. I'd like to have that cargo space, but I also wasn't sure I wanted a bigger vehicle. It's always just trade-offs, I guess.

Is a Taco bigger than a 4Runner?

Hmmm...



I guess a bit...

 

[Nick]

The 4 Runner is definitely more luxurious and comfortable though (and sexier at the moment). I'd prefer it way over the Taco except for the cargo factor. Especially the dirty, interior-destroying cargo.

 

[Artemus]

And I'm pretty sure I'm getting at least a $5 gift certificate out of it, so that means it was great!!

Keith, dId you use Nick's sales guy? We always buy from Mark Miller (5 Toyota trucks now) - I will have to look him up next time....

 

[Artemus]

the KDSS disengages the sway bars, and my understanding is that will allow more up and down movement of the wheels when one side is going over much higher or much lower terrain than the other side. So it decreases the chances that a tire will come off the ground when the other side is at an extreme angle.

That is an old trick the jeepers and others have used for years. They even install quick releases on the sway bars so when on 4 and 4+ they crawl under and disconnect the sway bars. When moving over extreme obstacles the sway bars themselves will limit wheel articulation and allow wheels to come off the ground. Disconnecting the sway bars can greatly increase wheel travel allowing the tire to stay on the ground and do its job. The sway bars are pretty much unnecessary in those conditions. Nice feature to be able to disconnect it from in the cab.

I would like to see how it is implemented. The feature will only be useful at under 3-5 mph when trying to clear extreme obstacles on the hardest 4 wheel drive courses as some of our members sometimes do.

 

[IntrepidXJ]

I love the push-button swaybar disconnect on my Rubicon (no more stopping and crawling under my Jeep to disconnect....but on my XJ I removed the swaybar completely).

Besides crawling over obstacles, having the swaybar disconnected actually helps smooth out the ride on rougher roads...I wish I could override the 15mph limit on my Jeep.

That is an old trick the jeepers and others have used for years. They even install quick releases on the sway bars so when on 4 and 4+ they crawl under and disconnect the sway bars. When moving over extreme obstacles the sway bars themselves will limit wheel articulation and allow wheels to come off the ground. Disconnecting the sway bars can greatly increase wheel travel allowing the tire to stay on the ground and do its job. The sway bars are pretty much unnecessary in those conditions. Nice feature to be able to disconnect it from in the cab.

I would like to see how it is implemented. The feature will only be useful at under 3-5 mph when trying to clear extreme obstacles on the hardest 4 wheel drive courses as some of our members sometimes do.

 

[Artemus]

Besides crawling over obstacles, having the swaybar disconnected actually helps smooth out the ride on rougher roads...I wish I could override the 15mph limit on my Jeep.

Even helps at speed, interesting... That means the sway bar is not only giving you roll stiffness it is doing it at the expense of ride quality. Might make it more tippy to have it disconnected at speed, I suppose. Do you know how the mechanism works, Randy? I have seen the manual disconnects and they are pretty simple. Pretty harsh environment under their for a mechanical system operated from the cab. Does your Rubicon disconnect both the front and rear sway bars?

 

[IntrepidXJ]

While the manual disconnects are usually out by the wheels, the automatic disconnect mechanism is in the middle of the swaybar. The main swaybar is in two pieces each with splines and there is a coupler that joins them. When you disconnect, the coupler slides over and let's each side move freely. Hopefully that description makes sense.

The Rubicon only disconnects the front swaybar. The rear swaybar isn't as rigid as the front, though so it's not a big deal to leave it connected.

Even helps at speed, interesting... That means the sway bar is not only giving you roll stiffness it is doing it at the expense of ride quality. Might make it more tippy to have it disconnected at speed, I suppose. Do you know how the mechanism works, Randy? I have seen the manual disconnects and they are pretty simple. Pretty harsh environment under their for a mechanical system operated from the cab. Does your Rubicon disconnect both the front and rear sway bars?

 

[Artemus]

While the manual disconnects are usually out by the wheels, the automatic disconnect mechanism is in the middle of the swaybar. The main swaybar is in two pieces each with splines and there is a coupler that joins them. When you disconnect, the coupler slides over and let's each side move freely. Hopefully that description makes sense.

The Rubicon only disconnects the front swaybar. The rear swaybar isn't as rigid as the front, though so it's not a big deal to leave it connected.

That's brilliant! Kind of like how the old manual and automatic locking wheel hubs used to work. The rear sway bar is often smaller in diameter (and thus less rotationally stiff) than the front mostly due to the forward weight distribution. So the need to disconnect it would be less. Especially since often rear leaf spring based suspensions typically do not have that much wheel travel anyway. Most of the Baja racers that have 2-3' !!! of travel can't use leaf springs.

 

[Aldaron]

It really badly needs some red dirt.

I'm headed to Escalante tomorrow for a long weekend...I'll get you some better pictures with the desert christening!

 

[Laura]

Yeah, I'm not looking forward to that pain...I'm HORRIBLE at negotiating.

Looks like you did just fine. I negotiate for a living (labor representative) and all negotiating boils down to who has the most leverage. In buying a car, you have it. They want to sell a car at the highest price, you have many choices of who to buy from. They want you to feel intimidated so you won't realize how much leverage you have, but if they want you to buy from them they have to produce the best deal. After leverage, the next biggest thing is to get information beforehand-who is selling what around town, and can they beat that? Is the car you want in high demand or is there a lot of inventory around town? Get them to show you the invoice-what they bought the car for. They are really not going to want to do this so insist or leave. Don't negotiate for too long-it makes you tired and not as sharp. That's a trick some dealers use-they try to distract you with all kinds of offers of extras (low hanging fruit to them) and drag things out to get your focus off the price. If they play those games, get up and leave. The best negotiating isn't to play highball/lowball, it's to cut right to the chase. If they won't do that, leave. And in this economy, you really have leverage because there are fewer buyers out there.

Congrats on your new truck, looking forward to your first trip report!