Rope For Non Canyoneering

DrNed

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I want to get a good rope for raising / lowering of packs and the occasional non technical rappels. So I would be looking for durability and strength over any characteristics (which are unknown to me) that a canyoneer (is that a word?) would value. Brands, lengths, places to buy. I was looking a ropes on Amazon, but without any experience in this realm the details were meaningless.

Thanks.
 

Nick

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I'm not sure what you mean by non-technical rappel. If you just want a good hand line/pack moving rope, then 1" tubular webbing works well and isn't very expensive. You can get custom lengths at REI. Another option is 6mm static utility cord. They use that stuff for pull lines and tying prusiks so it would take all the weight you'd probably need to put on it.
 

Nick

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Also, with those suggestions, I'm assuming you're trying to minimize size/weight and at the same time have good strength/durability. Those would be the best combos, IMO. Next up would be an actual 8mm canyoneering rope. Just make sure it's static, not dynamic. Less water absorption and less load on the rope and anchors via stretching.
 

blueeyes

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Hooking a longer sling to your pack is easiest if it is for lowering on shortish type down climbs and the slings work well for assisting someone if they need help up or down.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 

Bob

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You may be looking for a static rope. 8mm works, could possibly go 6mm would do in a pinch, but you would need to double it for rappelling, tubing would work say for 20' kinda hand over hand. I carry about 60' of 11mm, a little heavy, but I have a lot of that.. I can give you a length if you want that. May want to get a rappelling D-ring as well. Don't use P-cord, get real sheathed or braided. If you go big on your rappelling I'd get regular 8 to 11mm static rope. In Utah: REI, Kirkhams (I think), Backcountry.com, in Ogden Smith and Edwards.
 

DrNed

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I'm not sure what you mean by non-technical rappel.

The best example I've had was the rappel into the Subway. Not requiring a harness - where I've got the rope in one hand, bring it around my backside to the other hand. So I've got rope in each hand, walking backwards down the slope, feeding the rope around myself as I go down. Too steep to just walk but not steep enough to really do a "technical rappel" with harness, etc.
Thanks for the info. I think webbing and the utility rope would be my best options. Having said that, when you've lowered packs in Coyote Gulch how much did you require?

Hooking a longer sling to your pack is easiest if it is for lowering on shortish type down climbs and the slings work well for assisting someone if they need help up or down.

For someone embarrassingly ignorant of such things, what kind of sling are you referring to? How is it done? I want to be able to do just as you say, help on down climbs and assisting others up or down.Thanks
 

DrNed

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You may be looking for a static rope. 8mm works, could possibly go 6mm would do in a pinch, but you would need to double it for rappelling, tubing would work say for 20' kinda hand over hand. I carry about 60' of 11mm, a little heavy, but I have a lot of that.. I can give you a length if you want that. May want to get a rappelling D-ring as well. Don't use P-cord, get real sheathed or braided. If you go big on your rappelling I'd get regular 8 to 11mm static rope. In Utah: REI, Kirkhams (I think), Backcountry.com, in Ogden Smith and Edwards.

More good info. When does a D-ring do and how is it used?As I mentioned in my reply above my first use of it will be for lowering packs into Coyote Gulch whether at the crack or at Jacob Hamblin Arch. The latter being a little more difficult by appearances, but I'm tempted.
Sounds like a trip to REI is in my evening plans. If I bring my wife, does that count as a date? :disagree:
 

Nick

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The best example I've had was the rappel into the Subway...

Gotcha. I would normally just call that handlining. And FWIW, a lot of people do handline that last Subway rap, but it is still very much rappel-able. I'm in the camp that I'd rather carry the harness for that kind of thing because I feel the cost to carry it outweights the potential injury for not using it. Just slipping on a wet rock would easily be enough to lose grip on the rope and a fall there could be fatal or at least very, very painful and expensive. Also, the new anchors above the Subway are definitely NOT suitable for handlining. They were put in because the others are getting more and more inaccessible due to the changing log jam situation above the waterfall room. I know we're not really talking about the Subway, but it's good that more folks hear about that so they don't go unprepared.

For the pack lowering at Crack in the Wall, you don't need all that much. I always carry 50 feet of 3mm paracord when I backpack and we used that with plenty to spare. Be sure to go to the lower opening though. When you first drop down the crack, there is a ledge with lots of rope grooves. If you go a little further through a short narrow section, there is another ledge without rope grooves that is way closer to the ground below and much easier to lower from. Saves you work and saves the rocks damage. :)
 

Nick

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This is the lower, and much better pack lowering station at Crack in the Wall.

CoyoteGulch2010-1330.jpg
 

DrNed

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Gotcha. I would normally just call that handlining. And FWIW, a lot of people do handline that last Subway rap, but it is still very much rappel-able. I'm in the camp that I'd rather carry the harness for that kind of thing because I feel the cost to carry it outweights the potential injury for not using it. Just slipping on a wet rock would easily be enough to lose grip on the rope and a fall there could be fatal or at least very, very painful and expensive. Also, the new anchors above the Subway are definitely NOT suitable for handlining. They were put in because the others are getting more and more inaccessible due to the changing log jam situation above the waterfall room. I know we're not really talking about the Subway, but it's good that more folks hear about that so they don't go unprepared.

For the pack lowering at Crack in the Wall, you don't need all that much. I always carry 50 feet of 3mm paracord when I backpack and we used that with plenty to spare. Be sure to go to the lower opening though. When you first drop down the crack, there is a ledge with lots of rope grooves. If you go a little further through a short narrow section, there is another ledge without rope grooves that is way closer to the ground below and much easier to lower from. Saves you work and saves the rocks damage. :)

Glad to hear that. The guys I went with did it handlining, the people who were in front of us did it handlining, so that's how I thought it was done, but I was very uncomfortable the whole way down. In fact, at the top it was so sandy and my shoes wet, I had that feeling of being on the edge of falling the whole time I tried to get into position. It took me way too long to move the last 10 feet to the bolt and get into position. As funny as it may sound, that was one of my scariest moments.
 

Nick

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Yeah, lots of people handline the whole subway. They also have a lot of broken ankles in the Subway! What a place for that to happen... I'm glad they put in those new anchors, because even with tech gear, I've never liked getting onto the rope on that other side. It's so smooth and sloped and often wet there right below the chains, and hopping off the ledge into position is a bit sketchy unprotected. When I've been with bigger groups, I've often setup a little cowtail from the anchor that people could clip into just to get into position. Overkill in the eyes of those who don't think a harness is necessary, but better safe than sorry, IMO.
 

Dave

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I tend to carry a length of 1-inch tubular webbing any time I'm solo, and a lot of time even when I'm not. It's great for lowering packs or establishing a hand line. I consider it part of my safety gear, like a first aid kit.
 

Nick

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A couple other pros on the 1" webbing:

It can be tied into a harness
It is much more comfortable than rope/cord on the body and hands when loaded
It is pretty light and compact when dry
 

Bob

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Now we are getting into full canyoneering stuff, making harnesses, etc, big raps..... Thought the question was for simple stuff. Yes, you need webbing to make a harness, but for 20 ' you can wrap. D- ring....figure 8. Used for rappelling or letting down packs in a controlled manner. I don't do paracord anymore....stretches out and cover cuts easily, I carry braided or regular sheathed small dia stuff and a ATC. What each prefers individually and is comfortable with is best. Try a few different ideas for the one you like best.
ring (800x401).jpg
 

Duke

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. I'm in the camp that I'd rather carry the harness for that kind of thing because I feel the cost to carry it outweights the potential injury for not using it. Just slipping on a wet rock would easily be enough to lose grip on the rope and a fall there could be fatal or at least very, very painful and expensive.

x2 here. Not for that specific rap per se, but in general handlines seem to be a bit lazy to me and not the safest way. Why not just do it right?? No regrets that way.
 

DrNed

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For those interested in knowing - I spoke to the backcountry ranger today about going into Coyote Gulch next month and he suggested (pleaded?) that when raising/lowering packs that we use webbing. He said that webbing is not nearly as destructive to the rock when compared to rope.
 
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