Recommend me a sleeping bag

LarryBoy

Hiker Trash
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Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
2,727
I settled on a 20 Degree Enlightened Equipment Convert in Wide/Long https://enlightenedequipment.com/convert-stock/
It has a full length zipper for the colder trips, but works as a quilt for warmer trips or when I have my hammock. I looked at all your recommendations (which I really appreciate) and this seemed to be the best for what was in stock/ship now.

Fully open like a blanket, I put my camera on it for scale and to show the loft. This thing is big.
View attachment 102119

Like a quilt
View attachment 102118

All zipped up like a bag
View attachment 102117

I'll try to remember to update once I've used it in cold temps. Thanks again for everyone's advice.
Good for you! Curious for your take once you've taken it on a few trips.
 

wsp_scott

Member
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Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,047
I mentioned this in the first post, but I think everyone missed it once they saw the photo of my ruined duffel and quilt.

I also need a replacement for Patagonia Cap 4 base layers/long underwear for my winter sleep outfit. Should I just buy Cap 4 again? Are there similar grid fleeces that are cheaper? Something else totally since stuff has likely changed in the last 7 or 8 years?
 

OwenM

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Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
342
No such thing as Cap4 any more. I think they call it "thermal weight", now.
Check out Terramar's excellent "Ecolator 3.0" stuff for a slightly heavier, and much cheaper, alternative.
Google and shop around. The bottoms are sometimes on sale or clearance for as low as $15, but are still a fantastic bargain at their usual prices.
 

Jackson

I ❤️ GYE
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Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
2,989
I have a Patagonia gridded fleece called the R1. I love it, but It's probably not cheaper than what you had previously. Seems like most big manufacturers make similar stuff like that now.
 

regehr

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
1,879
I have an Ibex bottom and a smartwool top that make me really happy on cold trips, they're sort of a 2nd skin since I never take them off
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
326
I had an airline incident and a bunch of gear got trashed (see photo). The most pressing is a sleeping bag so I can still get out this winter.

So, any recommendations for a 20 - 30 degree down bag that is ideally not too heavy and not too expensive (I know these requests don't really go together)?
I also need a replacement for Patagonia Cap 4 base layers/long underwear for my winter sleep outfit. Any suggestions?

View attachment 101922

Enough friction to ruin my bear can, but I have a small one and won't need another large until next summer.
View attachment 101923
W O W
 

wsp_scott

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Joined
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Messages
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So, I finally heard from Delta about this bag destruction. Warning, way too much detail, but might make entertaiing lunch time reading.

I ended up losing a Montbell Jacket, sleeping quilt, bear can, Patagonia long underwear (top and bottom), hiking pants and shirt. Delta says to enter the purchase price, but most of this was purchased years ago, so no idea. I was honest with my estimates and claimed $988 total (weird number, but I itemized each piece). I knew I was going to lose money on this, but I was being honest and assumed that things would work out (BTW: I flew enough during this year of covid to get medallion status)

After submitting my claim, it took about 2 weeks to hear anything and Delta said that I either needed to submit receipts or state in writing that I did not have any. I'm going to have some actual quotes to show how ridiculous this ended up being.

Me: I do not have receipts because most of my damaged stuff was purchased a while ago, a couple things were gifts.

Delta: We want you to know that every precaution is made to have a passenger’s luggage arrive in the same condition as when it was checked into our care. We truly regret this mishandling of your property, and thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

You stated that your item was valued at $988.00, and I understand you aren’t able to provide a receipt or bank statement to substantiate the original purchase. In lieu of denying payment for the item, I am reimbursing you $494.00 as an adjusted settlement. This represents half the value of your stated cost. If at a later date you are able to provide proof of the original purchase, we would be happy to review.

Me; That is a completely unreasonable amount given what was damaged. I deliberately estimated reasonable prices for the stuff that was ruined. Just replacing the sleeping bag cost me $400 (I have a receipt for that purchase). I just got new long underwear (top and bottom) for $110. A new jacket is going to be $250. A new bear can costs $75.

and then nothing from Delta, I try to call the number and keep getting disconnected. I call the number on the website and talk to someone who is nice, but unable to help or put me in touch with anyone who can help.

10 days after my last email I sent
Me: I tried calling the listed number (1-800-618-9615) yesterday and was repeatedly disconnected. I talked to someone at the number listed on the website about this problem and she said she would email you about my claim. This offer is a joke, it is unreasonable to expect someone to have receipts for purchases made years ago. And, it is unarguable that Delta screwed up here, my bag and contents were shredded. The fact that you have not responded to my previous email in 9 days is an example of very poor customer relations.

Delta @ 8am Friday: Our management team has reviewed your rebuttal to our previous response. We follow a consistent policy to ensure that we are fair to everyone who travels with us. Accordingly, we must respectfully decline your request for an exception to be made, based on the contract of carriage and tariffs explained to you. We are sorry that you remain disappointed with our response.

My wife has a Twitter account that she uses a little bit for work stuff and she posted this story and a couple of the photos on Friday morning. Some people responded with silly pics and things like "that sucks".

And Delta @ 4:30 pm Friday:
Thank you for contacting Delta Air Lines. We are sorry for the delay in responding to your message.

Every precaution is taken to have a passenger’s luggage arrive on the same flight and in the same condition as when it was checked into our care. We normally succeed with few exceptions, and it is unfortunate that we were unable to meet your expectations on this occasion.

As a one time exception we will be processing additional payment of $494.00, representing the value of your damage items without receipts

_______________
The moral of the story is that some social media (Twitter in this case) is useful in fixing problems with large companies, but should not be necessary.

So, in the end, I'm going to get about a $1000 for this baggage incident. I'm already out $400 for a new bag, but I got a deal on some merino long underwear (top and bottom for ~$100). I'll try to find a deal on a new puffy jacket and hiking clothes over the winter. And a bear can replacement will be about $75. So I won't lose too much money on this, but I'm definitely not profiting.

TL;DR - if something like this happens to you and you don't have receipts (who does?), totally overestimate the purchase price or use replacement costs when submitting for reimbursement. This would have been painless if I had just said my stuff cost $2000 and they gave me half of that.
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
326
So, I finally heard from Delta about this bag destruction. Warning, way too much detail, but might make entertaiing lunch time reading.

I ended up losing a Montbell Jacket, sleeping quilt, bear can, Patagonia long underwear (top and bottom), hiking pants and shirt. Delta says to enter the purchase price, but most of this was purchased years ago, so no idea. I was honest with my estimates and claimed $988 total (weird number, but I itemized each piece). I knew I was going to lose money on this, but I was being honest and assumed that things would work out (BTW: I flew enough during this year of covid to get medallion status)

After submitting my claim, it took about 2 weeks to hear anything and Delta said that I either needed to submit receipts or state in writing that I did not have any. I'm going to have some actual quotes to show how ridiculous this ended up being.

Me: I do not have receipts because most of my damaged stuff was purchased a while ago, a couple things were gifts.

Delta: We want you to know that every precaution is made to have a passenger’s luggage arrive in the same condition as when it was checked into our care. We truly regret this mishandling of your property, and thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

You stated that your item was valued at $988.00, and I understand you aren’t able to provide a receipt or bank statement to substantiate the original purchase. In lieu of denying payment for the item, I am reimbursing you $494.00 as an adjusted settlement. This represents half the value of your stated cost. If at a later date you are able to provide proof of the original purchase, we would be happy to review.

Me; That is a completely unreasonable amount given what was damaged. I deliberately estimated reasonable prices for the stuff that was ruined. Just replacing the sleeping bag cost me $400 (I have a receipt for that purchase). I just got new long underwear (top and bottom) for $110. A new jacket is going to be $250. A new bear can costs $75.

and then nothing from Delta, I try to call the number and keep getting disconnected. I call the number on the website and talk to someone who is nice, but unable to help or put me in touch with anyone who can help.

10 days after my last email I sent
Me: I tried calling the listed number (1-800-618-9615) yesterday and was repeatedly disconnected. I talked to someone at the number listed on the website about this problem and she said she would email you about my claim. This offer is a joke, it is unreasonable to expect someone to have receipts for purchases made years ago. And, it is unarguable that Delta screwed up here, my bag and contents were shredded. The fact that you have not responded to my previous email in 9 days is an example of very poor customer relations.

Delta @ 8am Friday: Our management team has reviewed your rebuttal to our previous response. We follow a consistent policy to ensure that we are fair to everyone who travels with us. Accordingly, we must respectfully decline your request for an exception to be made, based on the contract of carriage and tariffs explained to you. We are sorry that you remain disappointed with our response.

My wife has a Twitter account that she uses a little bit for work stuff and she posted this story and a couple of the photos on Friday morning. Some people responded with silly pics and things like "that sucks".

And Delta @ 4:30 pm Friday:
Thank you for contacting Delta Air Lines. We are sorry for the delay in responding to your message.

Every precaution is taken to have a passenger’s luggage arrive on the same flight and in the same condition as when it was checked into our care. We normally succeed with few exceptions, and it is unfortunate that we were unable to meet your expectations on this occasion.

As a one time exception we will be processing additional payment of $494.00, representing the value of your damage items without receipts

_______________
The moral of the story is that some social media (Twitter in this case) is useful in fixing problems with large companies, but should not be necessary.

So, in the end, I'm going to get about a $1000 for this baggage incident. I'm already out $400 for a new bag, but I got a deal on some merino long underwear (top and bottom for ~$100). I'll try to find a deal on a new puffy jacket and hiking clothes over the winter. And a bear can replacement will be about $75. So I won't lose too much money on this, but I'm definitely not profiting.

TL;DR - if something like this happens to you and you don't have receipts (who does?), totally overestimate the purchase price or use replacement costs when submitting for reimbursement. This would have been painless if I had just said my stuff cost $2000 and they gave me half of that.
Where do I go to get th deal on th wool undies?
Too bad delta doesn’t realize that old equipment is still valuable….ya wud think they wud do to their AGING fleet of aircraft….my old -5 below goretex Marmot down bag was 300 on sale in 1989…it’s still good to 5 or so…a 5 degree vpbag is 500 at least now..thank heavens they gave ya th fair orice ya requested..delta is now a no fly zone…
 

LarryBoy

Hiker Trash
.
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
2,727
So, I finally heard from Delta about this bag destruction. Warning, way too much detail, but might make entertaiing lunch time reading.

I ended up losing a Montbell Jacket, sleeping quilt, bear can, Patagonia long underwear (top and bottom), hiking pants and shirt. Delta says to enter the purchase price, but most of this was purchased years ago, so no idea. I was honest with my estimates and claimed $988 total (weird number, but I itemized each piece). I knew I was going to lose money on this, but I was being honest and assumed that things would work out (BTW: I flew enough during this year of covid to get medallion status)

After submitting my claim, it took about 2 weeks to hear anything and Delta said that I either needed to submit receipts or state in writing that I did not have any. I'm going to have some actual quotes to show how ridiculous this ended up being.

Me: I do not have receipts because most of my damaged stuff was purchased a while ago, a couple things were gifts.

Delta: We want you to know that every precaution is made to have a passenger’s luggage arrive in the same condition as when it was checked into our care. We truly regret this mishandling of your property, and thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

You stated that your item was valued at $988.00, and I understand you aren’t able to provide a receipt or bank statement to substantiate the original purchase. In lieu of denying payment for the item, I am reimbursing you $494.00 as an adjusted settlement. This represents half the value of your stated cost. If at a later date you are able to provide proof of the original purchase, we would be happy to review.

Me; That is a completely unreasonable amount given what was damaged. I deliberately estimated reasonable prices for the stuff that was ruined. Just replacing the sleeping bag cost me $400 (I have a receipt for that purchase). I just got new long underwear (top and bottom) for $110. A new jacket is going to be $250. A new bear can costs $75.

and then nothing from Delta, I try to call the number and keep getting disconnected. I call the number on the website and talk to someone who is nice, but unable to help or put me in touch with anyone who can help.

10 days after my last email I sent
Me: I tried calling the listed number (1-800-618-9615) yesterday and was repeatedly disconnected. I talked to someone at the number listed on the website about this problem and she said she would email you about my claim. This offer is a joke, it is unreasonable to expect someone to have receipts for purchases made years ago. And, it is unarguable that Delta screwed up here, my bag and contents were shredded. The fact that you have not responded to my previous email in 9 days is an example of very poor customer relations.

Delta @ 8am Friday: Our management team has reviewed your rebuttal to our previous response. We follow a consistent policy to ensure that we are fair to everyone who travels with us. Accordingly, we must respectfully decline your request for an exception to be made, based on the contract of carriage and tariffs explained to you. We are sorry that you remain disappointed with our response.

My wife has a Twitter account that she uses a little bit for work stuff and she posted this story and a couple of the photos on Friday morning. Some people responded with silly pics and things like "that sucks".

And Delta @ 4:30 pm Friday:
Thank you for contacting Delta Air Lines. We are sorry for the delay in responding to your message.

Every precaution is taken to have a passenger’s luggage arrive on the same flight and in the same condition as when it was checked into our care. We normally succeed with few exceptions, and it is unfortunate that we were unable to meet your expectations on this occasion.

As a one time exception we will be processing additional payment of $494.00, representing the value of your damage items without receipts

_______________
The moral of the story is that some social media (Twitter in this case) is useful in fixing problems with large companies, but should not be necessary.

So, in the end, I'm going to get about a $1000 for this baggage incident. I'm already out $400 for a new bag, but I got a deal on some merino long underwear (top and bottom for ~$100). I'll try to find a deal on a new puffy jacket and hiking clothes over the winter. And a bear can replacement will be about $75. So I won't lose too much money on this, but I'm definitely not profiting.

TL;DR - if something like this happens to you and you don't have receipts (who does?), totally overestimate the purchase price or use replacement costs when submitting for reimbursement. This would have been painless if I had just said my stuff cost $2000 and they gave me half of that.
The "half" figure is just so flippin arbitrary. And do they really think that most people are going to save receipts for their three year old laptop that's out of warranty? If not, it's hard to construe this as anything but a cynical ploy to screw people out of their deserved restitution.

The funny thing is that, by being cheapskates, they're actually encouraging dishonesty/over-inflation - the problem they ostensibly sought to avoid by requiring receipts in the first place.
 

regehr

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
1,879
Hey I have a dumb sleeping bag story, other week I was very rushed packing for a car camp trip to the Swell and just totally forgot to pack a sleeping bag. Luckily it was only getting down to the mid-40s or else it would have been a problem. I was almost completely comfortable in a fat parka that I bought many years ago when I lived in the midwest (damn thing is pretty much useless in Utah, except for sitting around at night during spring/fall car camps, cause it's so warm) plus a few light blankets that we always bring on car camp trips, wrapped around my legs.
 

wsp_scott

Member
.
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,047
Where do I go to get th deal on th wool undies?
Too bad delta doesn’t realize that old equipment is still valuable….ya wud think they wud do to their AGING fleet of aircraft….my old -5 below goretex Marmot down bag was 300 on sale in 1989…it’s still good to 5 or so…a 5 degree vpbag is 500 at least now..thank heavens they gave ya th fair orice ya requested..delta is now a no fly zone…

https://www.meriwoollayers.com/
Read a review on outdoorgrearlab, seems to be good quality, see what happens over time
 

wsp_scott

Member
.
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,047
The "half" figure is just so flippin arbitrary. And do they really think that most people are going to save receipts for their three year old laptop that's out of warranty? If not, it's hard to construe this as anything but a cynical ploy to screw people out of their deserved restitution.

The funny thing is that, by being cheapskates, they're actually encouraging dishonesty/over-inflation - the problem they ostensibly sought to avoid by requiring receipts in the first place.

Yep, knowing what I know now, I'd be tempted to claim $3-4000 just to see what happens :)
 

swmalone

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Messages
480
https://www.meriwoollayers.com/
Read a review on outdoorgrearlab, seems to be good quality, see what happens over time
Thanks for posting that info. I have a smartwool 250 quarter zip that got munched on when we had moths sneak in without us noticing a couple years ago. I have learned darning to save that thing but at the prices on that website I might give them a shot and put down the darning needle.
 

Janice

Member
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Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
776
Thx for the tip on getting reimbursement if necessary. So stupid of them to penny-pinch when your amount is a tiny drop in the big bucket. I know the airlines have taken a hit with pandemic losses, but still...
 

Mike K

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Messages
856
I'll try to remember to update once I've used it in cold temps. Thanks again for everyone's advice.

What's the verdict on the quilt? I'm in the market for a new bag or quilt and I'm having a hard time deciding what I need/want. I looked into quilts quite a bit but then sort of wrote them off. I saw too many complaints of drafts and attachment issues. Many people went back to bags. Also, if you start adding on "extras" like draft collars, overstuffing, dynamic tension, the weight starts creeping up. (Weight savings was one of the main draws - along with versatility and presumably more comfort for one who tosses and turns). I've eyed WM bags long and hard and can't seem to find exactly what I think I want. Anyhow, an update would be great. Thanks.
 

wsp_scott

Member
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Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,047
What's the verdict on the quilt? I'm in the market for a new bag or quilt and I'm having a hard time deciding what I need/want. I looked into quilts quite a bit but then sort of wrote them off. I saw too many complaints of drafts and attachment issues. Many people went back to bags. Also, if you start adding on "extras" like draft collars, overstuffing, dynamic tension, the weight starts creeping up. (Weight savings was one of the main draws - along with versatility and presumably more comfort for one who tosses and turns). I've eyed WM bags long and hard and can't seem to find exactly what I think I want. Anyhow, an update would be great. Thanks.

I've used the quilt down to the upper 20's and have been comfortable/warm so I agree with the temperature rating. Most of the cold weather use was in my hammock so drafts weren't a problem. I've used it in the upper 30's on the ground and was comfortable/not drafty. I think that the size helps limit drafts even if it isn't zipped all the way to the top (I've never down that). The quilt aspect makes it very flexible. I've used it into the 40s and was not too hot because it was very easy to vent.

If you remove the possibility of a hammock, then I think I would go with a regular sleeping bag vs. quilt. Or a different style quilt. This one has baffles that run the length which means that you are laying/compressing down if it is zipped all the way. I think I would prefer baffles that were horizontal vs vertical so I could have less down and just shift it to the top for colder weather, not sure how much weight that would save.

In the end, the wide/long quilt is probably too big for me and it doesn't compress as much as I would like, but it is super comfortable, seems well made/likely to last so I don't really regret buying it.
 

Bob

Trailmaster
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
3,434
Price /weight of quilt to a bag? Most quilts I've seen are ridiculous priced..... And not that much lighter
 

RyanP

Formerly bob32
Joined
Mar 1, 2015
Messages
433
Price /weight of quilt to a bag? Most quilts I've seen are ridiculous priced..... And not that much lighter
Huh, back when I looked into my options for a bag/quilt, I couldn't find a better bang-for-your-buck choice than the Hammock Gear Econ Burrow. I bought a quilt specifically because it seemed like I could get better quality for the price than I could with a bag (which kind of makes sense, since quilts are fundamentally simpler to make--no zipper/hood, etc.). I'd be interested to know if there is a sleeping bag out there with better warmth-per-dollar (at a given weight). Granted, this was several years ago, so prices and options may have changed. And a quilt is not for everyone or every condition. But apart from the weight, I personally just sleep better in one (I think because it's more like my blankets that I use every day at home)
 
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