Permit system for Angels Landing starting April 2022

fossana

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On and after April 1, 2022, hikers going to Angels Landing will need a permit. The National Park Service (NPS) will issue permits using online lotteries at Recreation.gov. The first lottery opens on January 3, 2022.

NPS announcement in full

Despite living ~40 min from the main entrance, I rarely go the main canyon b/c it's such a s&$*show. Hopefully this will ease some of the pain (and generate some revenue for the park from the lottery).
 

Kmatjhwy

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Fossana, do know exactly what you mean. For years have gone to Zion where I camped and hiked all over. This fall and winter have been back in the Southwest and have not not made any effort to go back to Zion. Zion now is such a big big mess and I don't what any part of it. Glad I have hiked and seen Angels Landing when I could, without any freaking permits. A good friend of mine who also has gone to Zion for years, is just like myself and refuses to go there either. There is sooooo much other country out there away from everything where one can still be by their lonesome and where no one goes to much it seems. This fall I was in some of the more remote and away from everything places in the Escalante Staircase Region. It was wonderful. Places there one could easily hide and be without many people nearby. There are quite a few places like this here in the west still Thank God. But just no to going back to Zion, unless things somehow change. Wishing You the Best!
 
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IntrepidXJ

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Despite living ~40 min from the main entrance, I rarely go the main canyon b/c it's such a s&$*show. Hopefully this will ease some of the pain (and generate some revenue for the park from the lottery).

I'm pretty sure all of the revenue from the lottery ($6 per application) will go to Rec.gov, a private company, just like all the other lotteries for permits on Rec.gov.

The more people they can entice to enter the lottery via advertising, the more money they make and the harder permits are to get. I've seen this happen with river permits these past few years. Seems like a pretty sweet business for them to be in...
 

regehr

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totally agree, we spent a lot of time in Zion during the cooler months in the 2000s and it just sort of slowly got more and more out of control, I don't see any real reason to visit the main canyon ever again...
 

Rockskipper

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Everybody's going to recreation.gov. Grand Teton NP just moved more of their campgrounds to that site. It's a really clunky interface, and I'm to the point I'm losing interest in anything they control, which is a lot of campgrounds these days, also a lot of the NF historic cabins. I feel bad for the new kids on the block who will never experience what it meant to be serendipitous.

Old Chinese saying: Happy person goes where nobody else wants to go.

My new camping destinations will be old overgrown abandoned dumps and gravel pits and junkyards and such.

ETA: And between freeway lanes, as per @Udink
 

Kmatjhwy

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Personally I never go to rec.gov and stay away from them. Am a rebel. If one is traveling and hiking, there are other places to stay. Yes like Rockskipper says, everybody's going to them ... Unfortunately! Since I live without a phone, another reason that I never use them.
 

swmalone

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Even the fishing licenses at Yellowstone moved to recreation.gov along with some additional campsites. And like @IntrepidXJ said it seems like they have a pretty sweet business. Minimum of $6 for ever transaction that occurs on the site and more and more places being mandated to use them. Personally I think that private companies shouldn't have access to the .gov websites.
 

Yvonne

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On and after April 1, 2022, hikers going to Angels Landing will need a permit. The National Park Service (NPS) will issue permits using online lotteries at Recreation.gov. The first lottery opens on January 3, 2022.

NPS announcement in full

Despite living ~40 min from the main entrance, I rarely go the main canyon b/c it's such a s&$*show. Hopefully this will ease some of the pain (and generate some revenue for the park from the lottery).
even though I live about 40 minutes away as well and work in the park, I rarely ever go in the main canyon. I usually have seen enough after I'm done with work so I do not need to immerse myself in that circus at all
 

Janice

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Glad we already enjoyed Angel's Landing - it was part of our kids' first trip to the magical Desert SW in 2009.

I'm intrigued about the public-private nature of recreation.gov. I hadn't previously wondered about that, and I just found that Booz-Allen revamped the system a few years ago and currently runs it. I'm sure it takes a lot of IT expertise to do this, so of course they need to cover costs, but how much profit are they making? I wonder how much they make off of each reservation (or lottery attempt) vs. how much money goes to parks. Does anyone have access to that info?
 

kwc

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Glad we already enjoyed Angel's Landing - it was part of our kids' first trip to the magical Desert SW in 2009.

I'm intrigued about the public-private nature of recreation.gov. I hadn't previously wondered about that, and I just found that Booz-Allen revamped the system a few years ago and currently runs it. I'm sure it takes a lot of IT expertise to do this, so of course they need to cover costs, but how much profit are they making? I wonder how much they make off of each reservation (or lottery attempt) vs. how much money goes to parks. Does anyone have access to that info?

A Google search indicates that the private company takes all of the fee money. None of the state or federal agencies get any money at all.
 

Janice

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A Google search indicates that the private company takes all of the fee money. None of the state or federal agencies get any money at all.
On recreation.gov, I'm seeing that there are "recreation fees" (for campsites, permits, etc.) and "reservation fees" (to "cover the cost of the reservation services"). One would hope that recreation fees go to park operations and reservation fees go to the private company. Do you think so?
 

kwc

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On recreation.gov, I'm seeing that there are "recreation fees" (for campsites, permits, etc.) and "reservation fees" (to "cover the cost of the reservation services"). One would hope that recreation fees go to park operations and reservation fees go to the private company. Do you think so?

per The Outdoor Project, the company keeps all the reservation fees. The actual permit fees go to the state/federal agency. But the company collects fees on every single application, so there may be 30,000 applications but only 1,000 permits given out. So 30,000 times $6 each gives the company a nice chunk of change. Multiply that by the number of places requiring a reservation/permit, then wow.
 

IntrepidXJ

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per The Outdoor Project, the company keeps all the reservation fees. The actual permit fees go to the state/federal agency. But the company collects fees on every single application, so there may be 30,000 applications but only 1,000 permits given out. So 30,000 times $6 each gives the company a nice chunk of change. Multiply that by the number of places requiring a reservation/permit, then wow.

The more they advertise (and they do on social media), the more people apply for permits, the more money they make, the harder it becomes for everyone to get permits. It's a losing situation for everyone except them.
 

Janice

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per The Outdoor Project, the company keeps all the reservation fees. The actual permit fees go to the state/federal agency. But the company collects fees on every single application, so there may be 30,000 applications but only 1,000 permits given out. So 30,000 times $6 each gives the company a nice chunk of change. Multiply that by the number of places requiring a reservation/permit, then wow.
A couple years back when I applied for Wave permits but didn't get them, I was disappointed but figured the BLM could at least use the application money. Foolish. Dumb me. :(
 

IntrepidXJ

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And now, this: timed entry starting at Arches on January 3rd. $2 per reservation at recreation.gov. Assuming that's per vehicle, it adds up to almost $1,000.000 using 2020's numbers.

I would rather see the permit fees go back to the parks/agencies instead of a private company. We should not be privatizing this.
 
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