North Fork Bull Lake Creek

RyanP

Formerly bob32
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I want to wander around the North Fork Bull Lake Creek area sometime before I die (including Shangri-la, "Glacier Panorama" (up near the base of Blaurock Pass), maybe even North Indian Pass or Horse Ridge, etc.) What is the best way to get to this area, assuming I want to keep this to 6 days or so (i.e., no WRHR thru-hike)? Here are some options that I am aware of, with their pros/cons:
  • The shortest approach is from the NE, from the Cold Springs Trailhead (please correct me if I am mistaken). This is definitely the approach I would choose (assuming North Indian Pass isn't too hard, which it might be), except that you have to pay for not just the reservation permit but also for a guide to drive you to the trailhead, which is very expensive. So this is probably never happening. It would sure be sweet to hike in to Don Lake, then do a diversion to Horse Ridge, then drop down N. Indian Pass to NFBLC area, then go over Blaurock Pass and loop around back to the trailhead though (that sounds like an awesome 7-day trip to me).
  • You can hike in all the way from the Glacier Trail and over Blaurock Pass. This is a very long approach followed by a difficult/tedious pass (Blaurock), so I'm not sure this will ever happen either. Like most people, I strongly prefer loops or point-to-points over boring in-and-back routes, so an in-and-back route with that long of an approach will probably never rise to the top of my list no matter how nice the destination.
  • You can hike in from Indian Pass over the Knifepoint Glacier. This is also an in-and-back route, but it's a little shorter.
  • You could combine the above two routes by doing a point-to-point hike between Elkhart Park to Glacier TH (via Indian Pass and Blaurock Pass). This sounds like a blast but the shuttle is very expensive since the trailheads are so far apart.
  • Maybe you could go from Elkhart TH to Bonney Pass down the Dinwoody Glacier to the top of the Glacier Trail then up Blaurock Pass and down into the NFBLC area then return via Knifepoint Glacier and Indian Basin? My impression is that Bonney Pass and Dinwoody Glacier would be tougher than these other passes (Blaurock/Indian/N. Indian), which are already probably the very hardest terrain that I would be willing to attempt.
Here are my questions:
  1. Are there any other approaches or routes that I am missing? I feel like none of the routes listed are ideal, and I am open to other suggestions.
  2. Is my impression correct that the Bonney Pass/Dinwoody Glacier route is harder (or requires more mountaineering experience) than the other routes?
  3. I'm thinking the Knifepoint Glacier in-and-back route is probably the best. I have never been on a glacier; is this a suitable first-time glacier experience, or am I just asking to die? I have microspikes, crampons, an ice axe, and a helmet, and have a little bit of snow climbing experience here in CO (we don't really have real glaciers in CO though). I'm guessing I would probably bring my Kahtoola KTS (strap-on) crampons, and leave the axe/helmet at home. Does that sound about right? Or would microspikes be sufficient? If that depends on the time of summer, any tips in this regard (which time of summer is best?) are appreciated.
Thanks in advance for any feedback!
 
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b.stark

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A route I did a few years back from Elkhart Park: out over Angel Pass, up through the Brown Cliffs/Bloody Hell pass into Shangri La, then back out over Indian Pass. Very worthwhile loop in my opinion, and plenty of options other than strictly the loop we did. We did 7 days, and I think its best to plan for that, although you could probably make it in a day less if you really wanted to. Its tough to do that country justice even in 7 days.
 

OldBill

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There's always a price to pay for access to prime areas of the Winds! I've gone over Fall Ck pass to Golden L, which is a little easier than Angel. Was targeting Bull Lake Creek area rather than N.Fk BLC. Most reports for Knifepoint are crossing with microspikes is all that's needed. Many don't even do that. I like having secure traction so would opt for the extra weight.

Like b.stark's idea a lot but beware that Bloody Hell pass is named for a reason. The Brown Cliffs area is challenging and even crossing Snowbridge Ck can be tough if that old bridge is gone. Several reports of high griz density along N.Fk BLC so be on alert there. Going through the Alpine Lakes (a High Route) is another possibility but that involves some serious scrambles in parts.

N. Pallister has some alternatives including the "Goat-friendly high route" and "Elk preferred low route" to avoid the Brown Cliffs area.
 
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RyanP

Formerly bob32
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Mar 1, 2015
Messages
260
A route I did a few years back from Elkhart Park: out over Angel Pass, up through the Brown Cliffs/Bloody Hell pass into Shangri La, then back out over Indian Pass. Very worthwhile loop in my opinion, and plenty of options other than strictly the loop we did. We did 7 days, and I think its best to plan for that, although you could probably make it in a day less if you really wanted to. Its tough to do that country justice even in 7 days.
Thanks! I was vaguely aware of loops of this sort, but I didn't initially give them much thought for two reasons: First, I had the impression that there were more tough passes/terrain than I would want (Bloody Hell pass, alpine lakes area, Angel Pass, etc), and second, it seemed like a loop of this sort warrants at least seven days (as you suggested). But otherwise it sounds awesome! I'll look into this a little more for sure
 

RyanP

Formerly bob32
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Messages
260
Most reports for Knifepoint are crossing with microspikes is all that's needed. Many don't even do that. I like having secure traction so would opt for the extra weight.
That's what I'm gathering as well; thanks. If I do this route, I'll likely bring just the spikes (although I may opt for the crampons)
 

RyanP

Formerly bob32
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Several reports of high griz density along N.Fk BLC so be on alert there.
Yeah, I read that. Normally I think fear of wildlife (esp. bears) is way overblown, but if I go solo in grizzly territory, I'm sure I'll change my position quickly on that! Are ursacks sufficient there, or is a canister needed? A canister would instantly disqualify this trip from ever happening! I'm thinking that making noise while hiking and practicing basic food strategies (eat, camp, and hang/store food in three different locations, control odors, don't camp in popular spots, etc) are the main things to focus on? Honestly, I think I'm still more worried about twisting an ankle, tweaking a knee, having issues with a stream crossing, getting caught above treeline in bad weather, etc.
 

RyanP

Formerly bob32
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Like b.stark's idea a lot but beware that Bloody Hell pass is named for a reason. The Brown Cliffs area is challenging and even crossing Snowbridge Ck can be tough if that old bridge is gone. Several reports of high griz density along N.Fk BLC so be on alert there. Going through the Alpine Lakes (a High Route) is another possibility but that involves some serious scrambles in parts.

N. Pallister has some alternatives including the "Goat-friendly high route" and "Elk preferred low route" to avoid the Brown Cliffs area.
I really like this suggestion, and will look into it more. I didn't mention this in my original post, but a top priority for me is to minimize time on sketchy terrain (talus, steep slopes, etc). I think I would prefer the longer route on easier terrain for this reason. This feels like a 7-day route to me though, which will realistically be tough to ever pull off. But it sure sounds awesome!
 

OldBill

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I used to just hang as best I could. After having my bag stuck in a tree twice on one trip, I've switched to an Ursack last year. If a bear gets it, your food is crushed into a mess, probably covered in bear slobber. But, legal and a lot easier to deal with. I've always used Opsaks to control odor and am *very* careful about any cooking or other scents near camp. One reason I don't cook any fish I happen to catch.

Yes, solo hiking has it own added challenges. I've rolled an ankle more than once on off trail routes in remote areas. Put a good gouge in my hand from a fall onto a shard of pine branch another time. Still unwilling to cough up cash or add weight for an inReach mini (which has so-so reviews anyway). Then again, I like the challenge...within reason of my abilities!
 

TheMountainRabbit

"Because it's there."
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You've gotten some good input already - @b.stark's route looks pretty fun.

As far as the most straightforward routes to the north fork, I think it has to be via either Indian Pass from Elkhart or Blaurock Pass from Glacier - Indian Pass being the easier of the two options. Turning it into a loop - especially a 6 day loop - is the challenge, because your alternate exits within a "short" distance all present a higher degree of challenge:
  • Bonney Pass - it's not too bad, but you do need some comfort level w/ glacier crossings for Dinwoody.
  • Alpine Lakes Basin and/or Bloody Hell/Brown Cliffs are both rough scrambles, plus they might push the 6 day limit - though that varies by person.
  • Almost anything else would push the 6 day limit for most people.
Personally, my guess would be that a loop from Elkhart over Indian/Blaurock/Bonney would be doable for you - but I have no way of knowing for sure. One suggestion might be to do Indian and go up Blaurock and have an opportunity there to decide whether to backtrack over Indian or proceed over Bonney, depending on how you feel and what conditions "on the ground" have looked like.

I've never used anything more than microspikes in the Winds, so crampons are probably overkill, but all my longer trips have been in August/September. For Knifepoint Glacier most of the hiking season you don't really need spikes.

In regards to bears, I think an Ursack is perfect. It's definitely my go-to.

When are you planning on making the trip? Maybe I'll see you out there - I'm planning a loop that includes this area in August. (We're coming in via the Divide from Green River Lakes TH.)
 

Bob

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Dont cut yourself short...... unless you are hiking really fast and can handle the steep easily id bet your looking a 8 Nites MINIMUM..... Ive tried getting into Horse ridge and dry fork twice now, both times weathered out..and planned it at 8 nites..... you dont want to be in there, that high with bad weather. This enitre area IS NOT for the timid.

If you don't want tough passes. Don't do Blaurock. Bloody hell pass is no big deal...worst is the BIG boulder hoping is down by the lake. In Dinwoody out and back is actually easiest even if longer, there is good trail all the way to blaurock. You can do the loop from elkhart to indian to glacier pano over e Indian pass to dons back out go thru shangrila bloody hell camp lk hay pass timco lk chain lks and pole creek lks back to elkhart.... Everything from Camp lk is good trail...

Elkhart TH to Glacier Pano is 20 miles...as per my GPS track

And thru Cold springs TH you have to pay the REZ fee ..... last I herd was about $300.00. Dont try Bonney pass.

Knifepoint glacier nothing needed ...pole handy. Bear spray nowdays is good.

There is no easy way off of horse ridge to the west side....

You go in at Torrey up Dinwoody to Ink wells up horse ridge and back drop into Dons over E indian pass to glacier pano....over blaurock back to torrey ...or over w Indian to elkhart ..... or by shangrila bloody hell camp lk hay pass (or angel Pass ) to elkhart.....
 
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b.stark

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Thanks! I was vaguely aware of loops of this sort, but I didn't initially give them much thought for two reasons: First, I had the impression that there were more tough passes/terrain than I would want (Bloody Hell pass, alpine lakes area, Angel Pass, etc), and second, it seemed like a loop of this sort warrants at least seven days (as you suggested). But otherwise it sounds awesome! I'll look into this a little more for sure

Angel Pass is challenging, but I found it overall more fun than punishing. Bloody Hell pass is more difficult, if only due to the fact that it's so dang long. There are some other options for getting over the divide in the Angel Pass area, but none of them are cakewalks. Bypassing Bloody Hell pass via the high "goat trail" route looks like an interesting option. Been looking at it ever since my trip through that area.

Knife Point Glacier is not that much of an issue. If you're really worried, you can get up the dumb way like we did and take to the rocky stuff to the North of the glacier. The glacier is probably easier. There are plenty of dangers lurking in that loose rock laid down by recently melted glaciers. When we did Bloody Hell pass, there was a large, very steep patch of ice that was actually quite a challenge to go around. Not sure if that's still there, but be aware you might be doing some rock scrambling there. We felt it was too steep do go down without ice axes for self arrest, regardless of crampons or microspikes.

Were I to try to get back into that Glacier Panorama area myself, I'd probably take the recomendation by @Bob and start from Torrey Creek, do the loop over Horse Ridge, N. Indian Pass, and Blaurock. Mostly because that's all country I've not walked through yet and really want to see. Those two passes look like no joke though.

Weather can be a real issue in the high ridges/passes, and it seems once you get north of about the Titcomb Basin that weather can be extra temperamental in the high country. At least that's been my personal experience. When you're on the Eastern slop of the range, it's also harder to see what weather is coming at you, as the crest of the range does block your view to the West.

We did our hike through the area in late August with quite stable weather. There was also very little snow left, even way up high.
 

RyanP

Formerly bob32
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I used to just hang as best I could. After having my bag stuck in a tree twice on one trip, I've switched to an Ursack last year. If a bear gets it, your food is crushed into a mess, probably covered in bear slobber. But, legal and a lot easier to deal with. I've always used Opsaks to control odor and am *very* careful about any cooking or other scents near camp. One reason I don't cook any fish I happen to catch.

Yes, solo hiking has it own added challenges. I've rolled an ankle more than once on off trail routes in remote areas. Put a good gouge in my hand from a fall onto a shard of pine branch another time. Still unwilling to cough up cash or add weight for an inReach mini (which has so-so reviews anyway). Then again, I like the challenge...within reason of my abilities!
Yeah, Ursacks are great; I switched from the canister to the Ursack years ago and have only used the canister a couple of times since (when required by the National Parks). I can't stand canisters. The traditional bear hang is even worse (at least in the Rockies), as it's virtually impossible to find a suitable tree/branch and it's a huge hassle to do a proper hang in my opinion. I always use Opsaks as well and am careful about odors. But most of my precautions are for mice and other "mini-bears", as bears aren't much of an issue in most of CO and UT where I am typically backpacking. I fully realize that I don't know what I don't know when it comes to bear safety in Grizzly country though, since I've never backpacked there before. Sounds like it's mostly the same principles, but maybe take it extra seriously and make more noise when hiking?

I actually just purchased the inreach mini over the winter, after a scary close call with a fluke early-season snowstorm in early September last year (in SW CO). I decided it's worth the cost just for the weather update capability!
 

RyanP

Formerly bob32
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Personally, my guess would be that a loop from Elkhart over Indian/Blaurock/Bonney would be doable for you - but I have no way of knowing for sure. One suggestion might be to do Indian and go up Blaurock and have an opportunity there to decide whether to backtrack over Indian or proceed over Bonney, depending on how you feel and what conditions "on the ground" have looked like.
I thought about doing just that, but I would be concerned about the descent down the South side of Bonney Pass. I would be pretty committed at that point in the route, and it looks/sounds like it's pretty steep on the S. side in particular. If I attempted Bonney Pass in the other direction (from S to N), on the other hand, I could turn back if needed and still have a fun time in the Winds going elsewhere (since it's earlier in the trip). I'm really leaning away from the Bonney Pass option at this point. I could probably gain the needed skills and do the needed research to prepare myself for this, but I could alternatively just work out a way to fit in an extra day or two (whenever I actually get around to doing this trip), and then do one of the easier routes. I would love to get some of those close-up views of the Gannett area though!
 

RyanP

Formerly bob32
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When are you planning on making the trip? Maybe I'll see you out there - I'm planning a loop that includes this area in August. (We're coming in via the Divide from Green River Lakes TH.)
I am planning on heading to the Winds in mid/late Aug this year, but I'm now thinking I'm going to put off this particular route and do an easier/shorter loop elsewhere (still in the Winds) that is more suitable to the amount of time we will have (which will be 6 days at the very most). Good thing I've got several other must-do hikes on my list! I'd be very interested to hear the details of your planned trip though!
 

TheMountainRabbit

"Because it's there."
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I fully realize that I don't know what I don't know when it comes to bear safety in Grizzly country though, since I've never backpacked there before. Sounds like it's mostly the same principles, but maybe take it extra seriously and make more noise when hiking?
That about sums it up.
I actually just purchased the inreach mini over the winter, after a scary close call with a fluke early-season snowstorm in early September last year (in SW CO). I decided it's worth the cost just for the weather update capability!
I love my inReach Mini - it makes my wife feel a ton better about me being out by myself or far away, which means I feel better about leaving. I've never had to hit the "Oh, shit!" button thankfully, but all the other features are nice, too.
I thought about doing just that, but I would be concerned about the descent down the South side of Bonney Pass. I would be pretty committed at that point in the route, and it looks/sounds like it's pretty steep on the S. side in particular. If I attempted Bonney Pass in the other direction (from S to N), on the other hand, I could turn back if needed and still have a fun time in the Winds going elsewhere (since it's earlier in the trip). I'm really leaning away from the Bonney Pass option at this point. I could probably gain the needed skills and do the needed research to prepare myself for this, but I could alternatively just work out a way to fit in an extra day or two (whenever I actually get around to doing this trip), and then do one of the easier routes. I would love to get some of those close-up views of the Gannett area though!
I think if you can handle both sides of Blaurock and the north side of Bonney, you don't have much to fear from the south side of Bonney. I certainly wouldn't want to push you towards something you're uncomfortable w/, but if you're feeling good at the top of Blaurock I think you're in good condition to finish the loop.
I am planning on heading to the Winds in mid/late Aug this year, but I'm now thinking I'm going to put off this particular route and do an easier/shorter loop elsewhere (still in the Winds) that is more suitable to the amount of time we will have (which will be 6 days at the very most). Good thing I've got several other must-do hikes on my list! I'd be very interested to hear the details of your planned trip though!
The plan is a loop from Green River Lake TH - we'll get up on the Divide a few miles north of Downs and follow it onto the glaciers until we get to the foot of Dinwoody. From there we'll go Blaurock/Indian/Knapsack and back out to Green River Lake TH. Perfect weather we're shooting for 6 days, but we have a 2-3 day cushion. (I'd like to use some of the extra time to go by Elbow Lake, if we have it.)
 

RyanP

Formerly bob32
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Mar 1, 2015
Messages
260
Dont cut yourself short...... unless you are hiking really fast and can handle the steep easily id bet your looking a 8 Nites MINIMUM..... Ive tried getting into Horse ridge and dry fork twice now, both times weathered out..and planned it at 8 nites..... you dont want to be in there, that high with bad weather. This enitre area IS NOT for the timid.

If you don't want tough passes. Don't do Blaurock. Bloody hell pass is no big deal...worst is the BIG boulder hoping is down by the lake. In Dinwoody out and back is actually easiest even if longer, there is good trail all the way to blaurock. You can do the loop from elkhart to indian to glacier pano over e Indian pass to dons back out go thru shangrila bloody hell camp lk hay pass timco lk chain lks and pole creek lks back to elkhart.... Everything from Camp lk is good trail...

Elkhart TH to Glacier Pano is 20 miles...as per my GPS track

And thru Cold springs TH you have to pay the REZ fee ..... last I herd was about $300.00. Dont try Bonney pass.

Knifepoint glacier nothing needed ...pole handy. Bear spray nowdays is good.

There is no easy way off of horse ridge to the west side....

You go in at Torrey up Dinwoody to Ink wells up horse ridge and back drop into Dons over E indian pass to glacier pano....over blaurock back to torrey ...or over w Indian to elkhart ..... or by shangrila bloody hell camp lk hay pass (or angel Pass ) to elkhart.....
Wow, tons of good info packed in here; thanks! The more I'm thinking of it, the more I like the idea of "longer but easier", so I'm leaning towards the "goat-packers" route from Camp Lake to Shangri-La. That way I could skip Blaurock, Bonney, Angel, etc.

Thanks for the note about the West side of Horse Ridge. I was wondering about that, and had gathered that there was no easy way. Horse Ridge sounds awesome, although it makes for a very long trip if you also want time for NFBLC (since as you said there's no good way down the W side of Horse Ridge)

I thought I read somewhere that it was more like $500-600 for the REZ fee (for that trailhead). Maybe I should call to confirm. If it's more in the $300 range, AND that's per group (not per person), then it doesn't sound so bad (I'm fine with $150 or so per person)
 

RyanP

Formerly bob32
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That about sums it up.

I love my inReach Mini - it makes my wife feel a ton better about me being out by myself or far away, which means I feel better about leaving. I've never had to hit the "Oh, shit!" button thankfully, but all the other features are nice, too.

I think if you can handle both sides of Blaurock and the north side of Bonney, you don't have much to fear from the south side of Bonney. I certainly wouldn't want to push you towards something you're uncomfortable w/, but if you're feeling good at the top of Blaurock I think you're in good condition to finish the loop.

The plan is a loop from Green River Lake TH - we'll get up on the Divide a few miles north of Downs and follow it onto the glaciers until we get to the foot of Dinwoody. From there we'll go Blaurock/Indian/Knapsack and back out to Green River Lake TH. Perfect weather we're shooting for 6 days, but we have a 2-3 day cushion. (I'd like to use some of the extra time to go by Elbow Lake, if we have it.)
Thanks; maybe I'll put that option back on the table after all!
 

RyanP

Formerly bob32
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Messages
260
Were I to try to get back into that Glacier Panorama area myself, I'd probably take the recomendation by @Bob and start from Torrey Creek, do the loop over Horse Ridge, N. Indian Pass, and Blaurock. Mostly because that's all country I've not walked through yet and really want to see. Those two passes look like no joke though.
Yeah, I was thinking about a route like that; it would be amazing! But it would be pretty long too!
 

Bob

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Wow, tons of good info packed in here; thanks! The more I'm thinking of it, the more I like the idea of "longer but easier", so I'm leaning towards the "goat-packers" route from Camp Lake to Shangri-La. That way I could skip Blaurock, Bonney, Angel, etc.

Thanks for the note about the West side of Horse Ridge. I was wondering about that, and had gathered that there was no easy way. Horse Ridge sounds awesome, although it makes for a very long trip if you also want time for NFBLC (since as you said there's no good way down the W side of Horse Ridge)

I thought I read somewhere that it was more like $500-600 for the REZ fee (for that trailhead). Maybe I should call to confirm. If it's more in the $300 range, AND that's per group (not per person), then it doesn't sound so bad (I'm fine with $150 or so per person)
My $ figure was a few years ago and per person
 

Bob

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That about sums it up.

I love my inReach Mini - it makes my wife feel a ton better about me being out by myself or far away, which means I feel better about leaving. I've never had to hit the "Oh, shit!" button thankfully, but all the other features are nice, too.

I think if you can handle both sides of Blaurock and the north side of Bonney, you don't have much to fear from the south side of Bonney. I certainly wouldn't want to push you towards something you're uncomfortable w/, but if you're feeling good at the top of Blaurock I think you're in good condition to finish the loop.

The plan is a loop from Green River Lake TH - we'll get up on the Divide a few miles north of Downs and follow it onto the glaciers until we get to the foot of Dinwoody. From there we'll go Blaurock/Indian/Knapsack and back out to Green River Lake TH. Perfect weather we're shooting for 6 days, but we have a 2-3 day cushion. (I'd like to use some of the extra time to go by Elbow Lake, if we have it.)
The country around Downs is fairly rough.... Lots of boulders depending on your route up to the divide
 
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