Guided River Trips

[Nick]

If you EVER get a chance to float the Grand Canyon, do it. Best 23 days of my life.

Was yours a private trip, or guided?

 

[BJett]

Private. Scored an April launch on my first try.

http://backcountrypost.com/threads/paddling-the-grand-canyon-lees-ferry-to-pearce-ferry.2179/

 

[Bob]

Friend got one from the Park last year because he was on the alternate list when someone cancelled. You can always find a guide to go with boats.

 

[Nick]

Dang... two days too late to get in on this year's lottery.

 

[Mike K]

Has anyone here done any guided whitewater river trips?

Some of my good friends are/were river guides all over the place. So, in Utah I've had the opportunity to float Cataract and Desolation (Green River) twice. All those were private trips. In Idaho I've done the Main Fork of the Salmon once (private), the Middle Fork of the Salmon twice (once private and once commercial with my dad), and then a packraft trip on the Selway once. Other rivers to consider Green/Yamp, San Juan...

There's something magical and fun about river trips. I think you'd really like them Nick. The commercial one was a blast and I'd like to think Audra would like one (you can tell her I did one 10 days post clavicle surgery and was still able to hang on and enjoy...sounds like she might not like the white water). The guides are usually great and you quickly make friends with the other commercial guests. It's fun to jump in the IKs and paddle some of the rapids yourself. The commercial trips are painful to pay for after having done private trips where the cost is minimal. We used ARTA for the Middle Fork and they were great. I'm sure most companies would be good. I can ask my buddies if they have any strong opinions of ones to avoid...seems like there was one they didn't care for.

Someone else mentioned Idaho being dog friendly. I remember someone took a dog (black lab) on our private Main Fork Salmon trip and it was fun to have the dog along.

I think you'd have fun on any of the rivers. I like the Utah rivers but I really like the clear water of the Middle and Selway up in Idaho. I don't think you could go wrong with any of them.

 

[andyjaggy]

Sounds like he's more into the adrenaline. Utah has amazing rivers! Errr, I mean yeah, the rivers here suck. Go to Idaho, everyone!

He is yeah. Likes going off waterfalls and such.

 

[DudefromOhio]

I went canoeing once... Didn't end well.

 

[Henk]

@Nick , a raft through the Grand Canyon is one of the most wonderful experiences we ever had, i recommand it to anyone!
The scenery is breathtaking from begin to end, and, in case that is also important, there are enough serious rapids to get the adrenaline flowing, especially the day after passing Phantom Ranch (Horn Creek, Granite, Hermit, Crystal, and of course Lava Falls later on.

Having no experienced and lucky (after winning the lottery) friends to invite us, a commercial trip was the only alternative, you hardly need any special stuff of your own.
The food was excellent on both trips and the guides do most of the work giving you time to explore a bit before dinner or around lunch.

For me the scenery was the most important part, and by taking a trip labelled as "hiking special" you have the best possible option.
We did an 11 day Motorized trip and, another time, a 14 days oars trip (there were a few people with their own kajaks as well on the latter).
The 2nd trip was almost a present as we got it as 2 people for the price of 1.
If you can get on a longer trip, just do it, it's awesome!

We did many hikes into side canyons and to higher places, one referred to as "the death march" went up to Thunder River, over Surprise Valley and than back down to Deer Creek.
There are also tons of beautiful places like Elves Chasm, Matkat, Nankoweap, etc. for shorter breaks and Havasu Canyon if you are lucky.

One time when we stopped to set up camp, we were surprised with an loud "bang". After a while we figured out that at the other side 2 bighorn males had a fight on a narrow ledge. After each "bang" they went back a little bit and grazed for maybe a minute before the next "bang".
After about 30 minutes they suddenly stopped and peacefully went up the slope to the herd that had been waiting higher up.

Both trips started at Lees Ferry, the 1st one went all the way to Lake Mead, the 2nd we were taken out at Diamond Creek.
The 2nd trip we also had a partly exchange, some people only took a half trip and hiked out at Phantom Ranch and some new people hiked in.
(There are also trips where people are taken out somewhere at the end by helicopter).

I think the Company you go with is less important than which guide happens to be the Trip Leader, he rules and decides where to go and where not, as we found out when the guy just refused to go where the Company Owner had specifically assured us several times we would go.

Just a practical advise, when you want to be assured to have beer to the end of the trip you better bring 10-15% more than you plan to drink yourself as on both trips we had a few people that happily drunk the beer of others.

 

[Nurrgle]

I went down the Grand with my dad on one of the larger guided trips about 15 years ago. The group was about 20 people on two boats. Most were from back East and were not what I would call outdoorsy folks.

We rode a big bus to Lee's Ferry and all of our kit was there. They provided everything, we just needed clothes and hygiene stuff. The gear was all good quality stuff, nothing I would personally carry anywhere but it was good enough. The captain of the boat was a heady dude from Colorado who guided during the summer and ski'd during the winter. Between him and his swamper, the person who jumps off the boat and ties up, they were great. Honestly, this guy had a profound effect on my life and was one of the first people I ever met that did what made him happy.

I was raised in Utah and conditioned from a young age that happiness in life came from having a boat, a four wheeler for everyone in my family, a huge house, and, at the minimum, an F-250 with a 3" lift that blows black smoke. Oh I forgot, and huge damn toy hauler that I try to fit into the deepest backcountry I can find, usually while pulling a boat as well. (Sorry for the jib, Utah is my home so I can make a little fun.)

Back to Lee's Ferry. We all got a quick discussion on safety, loaded up and hit the river. The company provided more then we needed as far as food and drink, and the trip progressed at a chill pace. As I recall we broke camp around 8 and usually stopped for evening around 4. We got to get off the boat and hike everyday. This was before I gave up fishing and I remember the fishing was excellent. The guides would prep the fish once they were caught and I can remember more then one disgusted look at a party member who did not finish their fish.

One of the highlights for me at the time was floating down the Little Colorado in life jackets. We spent most of a day at that spot and it is glorious!

Overall, the trip was amazing. I would point to it as one of the touchstones in my life. It gave me my first real exposure to canyons and red rock away from the roads through Zion and the Bryce Canyon Overlook and helped to shape my adventures ever since.

As a much more seasoned backpacker and camper, I would still consider the trip. But at the price they are charging, I would probably just do a couple week route through the canyon. In my opinion, you could compare the experience to going on a bad-ass, outdoor cruise. Seriously these trip are crazy expensive now and while I love spending time with newbies in the back county, spending 8 days with 18 of them in close proximity does not sound like my cup of tea. I am sure I would be gone hiking and looking for peace every night, frustrating the guides and myself.

All that said, I wouldn't hesitate if I got the opportunity to go back down in a dory or a kayak if I ever get my skills confidence up to that level.

 

[Nick]

I just got an email from GCNP that some leftover permits are back up for lotto so I put in my name. Does anyone on here frequently put in for a permit? I know it's a weighted lottery, but I wonder how many years of trying is necessary before you're likely to get lucky.

And for those who did a private trip, did you rent all your boats and stuff from one of the gear outfitters? It sounds like it's a pretty painless process to rent if you don't own all that stuff...

How much experience do you need to move a raft through the big rapids in the Grand Canyon? I'm starting to like the idea of the private trip...

 

[Bob]

Guide with experience for the boat/highest class rapids are required as far as I know. My friend won the 'extra' lottery last year with no previous application. He hired a guide and rafts pretty easy...If you win I can find out the particulars.

 

[Nick]

The rule for private trips is that you can't pay anyone to help you through. You can recruit more experienced people to come along, but you can't hire a guide, from what I understand. I didn't see any skill requirements listed to get a permit.

Lava Falls looks really fun.

 

[Bob]

You rent the boat you get the guide.........hehe
Never got a permit, but I am sure they are not letting you down the river unless you have verifiable big rapid experience.... they don't want to rescue you.

Here ya go from the NPS site:
The Colorado River through Grand Canyon is a highly technical river, not something for the inexperienced to try. At least one member of each trip must have the experience and skills required by the National Park Service.

 

[Nick]

Ahhh yes. One person must have the necessary skills:

General Requirements
Before applying for a noncommercial permit through the weighted lottery, it is important to realize these trips are not for everyone. Here are a few important requirements:

• The Colorado River through Grand Canyon is a highly technical river, not something for the inexperienced to try. At least one member of each trip must have the experience and skills required by the National Park Service.
• Noncommercial trips must be self-guided and may not hire guides.
• All noncommercial trip expenses must be shared among all participants on a full cost sharing basis.
• Once awarded through the weighted lottery, noncommercial trip launch dates may not be changed, deferred, or traded.
• Trips may be passed to qualified Potential Alternate Trip Leaders (PATLs). To be qualified, these PATLs must be listed on the original lottery application, confirm their co-applicant status online before the lottery drawing, and meet all other NPS requirements.
• The main applicant must be at least 18 years old. PATLs must be at least 18 years old by the launch date.
• All Lottery and Permit fees are non-refundable. Applying through the Weighted Lottery costs $25, and those who are successful are immediately charged another $400 non-refundable deposit ($200 for launches advertised through the lottery as small trips). The deposit will apply toward the final permit fees. Final permit fees are currently $100 per person and are due 90 days before launch.
• All individuals are prohibited from participating on more than one (1) recreational river trip (commercial or non-commercial) per year through any part of the Lees Ferry to Diamond Creek section of the Colorado River.

As to what that experience entails:

Leader and Qualifying Boatman Experience
The Trip Leader and boatmen must have a working knowledge of whitewater safety, general first aid, river equipment repair,
and the techniques of white water navigation. The Trip Leader must be at least 18 years of age. Experience in the Grand
Canyon or one or more of the other comparable whitewater rivers is mandatory. It is preferable that the Trip Leader or
another member of the party be familiar with the Grand Canyon portion of the Colorado River.

Anyone want to be a PATL? PM me.

 

[Bob]

If you draw, it won't be hard to find someone......probably be knocking on your door

 

[BJett]

I know all the sneak routes, be glad to show you down the Grand. Haul my beer and food and follow the kayak...except at Lava. You're on your own.

 

[Mike K]

That'd be cool if you got all your stuff and started doing private trips! Probably want to work your way into it though, especially the bigger stuff ...maybe try to go on other private trips and practice rowing someone else's raft and have them teach you some river reading skills, etc. (They'd probably pass on a bunch of other knowledge too). There's a lot to a private trip (gear, planning, shuttling, and a lot of the stuff that you copied and pasted above). And you always want to respect the river and it's power (obviously).

As cool of a site as you have, you could probably get someone to invite you on a private trip this summer. =)

 

[Mike K]

All this talk of private trips got me thinking about the ones I've done so I had to look at some pictures on my buddy's website. All kinds of stuff happens on river trips. You play and learn fun river games, sometimes there's hot springs, you can see some cool indian stuff, etc. Here's a random one that made me laugh (it was actually innocent but doesn't look so):