isleroyaleguy
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Grizzlies in Wyoming article.
- Thread starter isleroyaleguy
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ramblinman
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Hopefully protections for the bears can continue to stretch along with them as they expand their range. Would be really cool to see grizz in the Bighorns in Wyoming and into the Black Hills of South Dakota
Absarokanaut
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Ramblinman,
With all due respect The Bighorn National Forest is about half the size of the Shoshone National Forest which itself is not a lot more than 10% of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. I am also suspect of any truly [sufficiently] large, mostly uninterrupted lands in the Black Hills. Beyond the obvious lack of adequate acreage there are of course much higher human population densities involved along with vast agricultural lands that would be in constant conflict.
They're having a VERY hard time connecting Greater Yellowstone's Grizzlies with those in Crown of the Continent, I don't see how they could possibly connect your two dreams with other populations which would of course be necessary for long term viability.
The Grizzly was indeed a Plains animal. Those days are of course LONG gone since they're not gonna rewild the plains for Buffalo let alone Grizzlies despite the ludicrous delusions of several idealists in denial of the modern world itself. Some biologists want to release wolves in Colorado. Others point out that although Colorado has more wilderness than Wyoming it is for the most part in relatively TINY chunks with lands that are far more densely populated than Greater Yellowstone in between. Greater Yellowstone is the greatest mammalian habitat in the Earth's Temperate Zone. What succeeds here has a lot more going for it to start with than anywhere else in the Temperate Zone let alone the country.
A hunter shot a Grizzly WAY down the Western Wind Front YEARS AGO. Years ago they were observed in desert lands toward the SW corner of the State. With all due respect to the trumpeters this expansion is hardly news. They trapped a Grizzly at an Apple Orchard just a couple of miles outside our city limits here in Jackson, WY. A Grizzly was shot in Crowheart MILES from the Winds on the Reservation not that long ago too. They are a significant problem for cattlemen in the upper Green River Valley. With the more than 19,000,000 acres of Greater Yellowstone arguably proving to small for the current population I respectfully suggest the idea of reintroducing them into far more densely populated areas significant distances from existing habitat is not well thought out.
I am obviously biased having seen and encountered EXPONENTIALLY more grizzlies in this century than the last. I've been stalked, shadowed, postured, bluff charged, and fully charged by grizzlies in the last 15 years. I am in the camp that they are likely chronically under counted. I am still ambivalent about de-listing because of the threats to grizzly food sources like Whitebark pine nuts and Army Cutworm Moths. Some people think the population is crashing. I don't see it, but things could change in the coming years. I however am not distressed by the prospect of de-listing because as with wolves Wyoming has no interest in having the animals relisted. Both species numbers are WAY above original expectations despite the delirious proclamations of many making a lot of money from this "Fight" like Defenders of Wildlife that beyond calculated photo ops in the end does little more than circulate online petitions with the $30,000,000 it raises annually. IMO Aldo Leopold, etc., would be disgusted with this generation of "wildlife biolgists" suggesting there should be no management of endangered species. If we lived in a world of MANY massive, intact ecosystems and were not so hell bent on being fruitful and multiplying I'd be on board. Unfortunately the world is what it is and I don't see an alacrity for reinventing civilization itself manifesting any time soon. As much as we do our best to be conservationists the world will never have a chance to be what it was before we are long gone as a species.
Call me Mr. Gloom if you must; I'll simply end with the suggestion we work with what we can instead of dreaming of things that are not going to happen as long as billions of us believe in mythologies grounded in the uninformed hubris of human exceptionalism.
With all due respect The Bighorn National Forest is about half the size of the Shoshone National Forest which itself is not a lot more than 10% of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. I am also suspect of any truly [sufficiently] large, mostly uninterrupted lands in the Black Hills. Beyond the obvious lack of adequate acreage there are of course much higher human population densities involved along with vast agricultural lands that would be in constant conflict.
They're having a VERY hard time connecting Greater Yellowstone's Grizzlies with those in Crown of the Continent, I don't see how they could possibly connect your two dreams with other populations which would of course be necessary for long term viability.
The Grizzly was indeed a Plains animal. Those days are of course LONG gone since they're not gonna rewild the plains for Buffalo let alone Grizzlies despite the ludicrous delusions of several idealists in denial of the modern world itself. Some biologists want to release wolves in Colorado. Others point out that although Colorado has more wilderness than Wyoming it is for the most part in relatively TINY chunks with lands that are far more densely populated than Greater Yellowstone in between. Greater Yellowstone is the greatest mammalian habitat in the Earth's Temperate Zone. What succeeds here has a lot more going for it to start with than anywhere else in the Temperate Zone let alone the country.
A hunter shot a Grizzly WAY down the Western Wind Front YEARS AGO. Years ago they were observed in desert lands toward the SW corner of the State. With all due respect to the trumpeters this expansion is hardly news. They trapped a Grizzly at an Apple Orchard just a couple of miles outside our city limits here in Jackson, WY. A Grizzly was shot in Crowheart MILES from the Winds on the Reservation not that long ago too. They are a significant problem for cattlemen in the upper Green River Valley. With the more than 19,000,000 acres of Greater Yellowstone arguably proving to small for the current population I respectfully suggest the idea of reintroducing them into far more densely populated areas significant distances from existing habitat is not well thought out.
I am obviously biased having seen and encountered EXPONENTIALLY more grizzlies in this century than the last. I've been stalked, shadowed, postured, bluff charged, and fully charged by grizzlies in the last 15 years. I am in the camp that they are likely chronically under counted. I am still ambivalent about de-listing because of the threats to grizzly food sources like Whitebark pine nuts and Army Cutworm Moths. Some people think the population is crashing. I don't see it, but things could change in the coming years. I however am not distressed by the prospect of de-listing because as with wolves Wyoming has no interest in having the animals relisted. Both species numbers are WAY above original expectations despite the delirious proclamations of many making a lot of money from this "Fight" like Defenders of Wildlife that beyond calculated photo ops in the end does little more than circulate online petitions with the $30,000,000 it raises annually. IMO Aldo Leopold, etc., would be disgusted with this generation of "wildlife biolgists" suggesting there should be no management of endangered species. If we lived in a world of MANY massive, intact ecosystems and were not so hell bent on being fruitful and multiplying I'd be on board. Unfortunately the world is what it is and I don't see an alacrity for reinventing civilization itself manifesting any time soon. As much as we do our best to be conservationists the world will never have a chance to be what it was before we are long gone as a species.
Call me Mr. Gloom if you must; I'll simply end with the suggestion we work with what we can instead of dreaming of things that are not going to happen as long as billions of us believe in mythologies grounded in the uninformed hubris of human exceptionalism.
Absarokanut, now that is Great with what you wrote. And Do Agree!
Now as for myself, I have been in and around the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem since 1979. I have had many many close and very close encounters with the Grizzly. In this day and age, I personally far more trust the grizzly then many people in this modern day and age. The grizzly has NEVER stabbed me in the back like many people have. When I have been in the backcountry, yes they have come into my camps at night, but more on a rare occasion. Most of the time, the grizzly gives me my space and do think that they want to avoid us humans just as much as we want to avoid them. This is for most of the 'Wild' grizzlies. And the grizzly like most wildlife just would like us humans to give them their space as they deserve.
Do think if the Grizzly keeps expanding it's range, one or two just might make it to the Bighorns. But there is a whole lot of obstacles to overcome for that to happen. What is much more likely to happen, it for the Greater Yellowstone expanding population of grizzlies meets up with the Northern Montana expanding population of grizzlies somewhere in the Bitterroot Mountains area on the Montana and Idaho border. Already a few grizzlies have been known to occur again in this area. But even with this there are obstacles to overcome. One obstacle is Interstate 15 which runs north and south from Eastern Idaho to Southwestern Montana.
But the population is expanding. I have known of Grizzlies to occur in the Cache Creek Area nearby Jackson to the SE. I have heard of a Grizzly or two to make it south to the Wyoming and Salt Ranges to the Southwest of Jackson. Heard of that a grizzly was seen on a web camera at near the Popo Agie Sinks area outside of Lander, Wyo. And ranchers now some ways outside of Meeteetsee have known grizzlies to occur there. Also more and more Grizzlies have known to occur in the Pierre's Hole Area of Idaho which is that area of Idaho to west of the Tetons near Driggs, Victor, Tetonia, etc. And also to reference to the above, one grizzly that was in the Bitterroots in Montana / Idaho area where no grizzly should of been, was shot by a hunter and this happened some time ago. They will continue to expand if we let them expand. Most of the wild grizzlies now in what I have observed what nothing to do with people for the most part. How many times in my hikes in the Absarokas when I have come upon a grizzly, the grizzly turns around and gets going as fast as they can. And this includes several close encounters with Sow Grizzlies with cubs in the Teton Wilderness that left the scene really quick once we encountered one another. The grizzlies are much more smarter then I think most people will give them credit. And who knows how far they will wander, if they behave themselves. Who knows, maybe oneday just possibly there could be a few Grizzlies (Hope Hope Hope) in the Wasatch Range in Northern Utah.
Now I remember a time in Yellowstone like in the early 80s when it was a really really big thing to see a grizzly. Now if one hikes the trails, one will see their tracks and scat on a everyday basis. I have seen many many a trail become a Grizzly Freeway so to speak with all sizes of tracks. I am also of a opinion, like Absarokanut, that there are lots more Grizzlies out there then what they are saying the population is. Just go back and be in those wilds like I have, spring to fall, all over the Absarokas, and you also will come to the same conclusion. Do think the Wyoming Fish and Game manages the wildlife really well. I LOVE GRIZZLIES!!!! But if they are delisted soon and some hunting occurs, it will NOT be the end of the world. The Grizzly is smart and knows where to go and be away from us Stupid Two Leggeds! Most people including hunters are wayyy too lazy to go wayyy back into those wild nooks and crannies off the trails where the majority of the bears occur. Do think like Absarokanut that alot of these Environmental Organizations do it just for a big fund raising racket. Our society rather it is liberal left or conservative right is always always just about the money. And follow the money. But in those wayyy back deep wilds, one can have all the money in the world and it will be useless. And this is where so many of those bears occurs like around Younts Peak, Bruin Peak, Trident Plateau, Two ocean Plateau, etc. etc. etc. Also have heard that a grizzly or two just might still be wandering in those San Juan Mountains in Colorado.
Now could write a book here on the subject after a lifetime of wandering in the Yellowstone Wilds. Personally we Humans might be the endangered species soon with all of our techno stupidity and then soooo separated in our personal lives from anything wild. And where for most humans we spend a lifetime chasing after money and all the techno gadgets then ever going oe evening thinking about going into the deep wilds. Some years ago, in July of 2006 I had a close encounter with a Boar Grizzly. We were about 75 feet away from each other. And I stared straight into the bear's eyes while the grizzly stared straight into mine. It was one of the most highest points of this life. Hard to say it in words. But when I stared into those grizzly's eyes ... I saw soooo much wisdom and intelligence. And ever since I have really wondered that are we really the most smartest thing on this planet or perhaps not so much as we think. Just maybe maybe those Grizzlies, and Wolves, and Whales, and other wild critters have more intelligence then we humans do. If we had any intelligence do think we would not spend a lifetime chasing after how many green frog skins (dollar bills) we could put into our bank accounts. Maybe when it is all said and done, those Grizzlies and Wolves will still be here roaming the wilds long after we have gone.
Could say more but will leave it as this. Gooooo Grizzlies!!!!!!!! Just my opinion and two cents worth.
Now as for myself, I have been in and around the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem since 1979. I have had many many close and very close encounters with the Grizzly. In this day and age, I personally far more trust the grizzly then many people in this modern day and age. The grizzly has NEVER stabbed me in the back like many people have. When I have been in the backcountry, yes they have come into my camps at night, but more on a rare occasion. Most of the time, the grizzly gives me my space and do think that they want to avoid us humans just as much as we want to avoid them. This is for most of the 'Wild' grizzlies. And the grizzly like most wildlife just would like us humans to give them their space as they deserve.
Do think if the Grizzly keeps expanding it's range, one or two just might make it to the Bighorns. But there is a whole lot of obstacles to overcome for that to happen. What is much more likely to happen, it for the Greater Yellowstone expanding population of grizzlies meets up with the Northern Montana expanding population of grizzlies somewhere in the Bitterroot Mountains area on the Montana and Idaho border. Already a few grizzlies have been known to occur again in this area. But even with this there are obstacles to overcome. One obstacle is Interstate 15 which runs north and south from Eastern Idaho to Southwestern Montana.
But the population is expanding. I have known of Grizzlies to occur in the Cache Creek Area nearby Jackson to the SE. I have heard of a Grizzly or two to make it south to the Wyoming and Salt Ranges to the Southwest of Jackson. Heard of that a grizzly was seen on a web camera at near the Popo Agie Sinks area outside of Lander, Wyo. And ranchers now some ways outside of Meeteetsee have known grizzlies to occur there. Also more and more Grizzlies have known to occur in the Pierre's Hole Area of Idaho which is that area of Idaho to west of the Tetons near Driggs, Victor, Tetonia, etc. And also to reference to the above, one grizzly that was in the Bitterroots in Montana / Idaho area where no grizzly should of been, was shot by a hunter and this happened some time ago. They will continue to expand if we let them expand. Most of the wild grizzlies now in what I have observed what nothing to do with people for the most part. How many times in my hikes in the Absarokas when I have come upon a grizzly, the grizzly turns around and gets going as fast as they can. And this includes several close encounters with Sow Grizzlies with cubs in the Teton Wilderness that left the scene really quick once we encountered one another. The grizzlies are much more smarter then I think most people will give them credit. And who knows how far they will wander, if they behave themselves. Who knows, maybe oneday just possibly there could be a few Grizzlies (Hope Hope Hope) in the Wasatch Range in Northern Utah.
Now I remember a time in Yellowstone like in the early 80s when it was a really really big thing to see a grizzly. Now if one hikes the trails, one will see their tracks and scat on a everyday basis. I have seen many many a trail become a Grizzly Freeway so to speak with all sizes of tracks. I am also of a opinion, like Absarokanut, that there are lots more Grizzlies out there then what they are saying the population is. Just go back and be in those wilds like I have, spring to fall, all over the Absarokas, and you also will come to the same conclusion. Do think the Wyoming Fish and Game manages the wildlife really well. I LOVE GRIZZLIES!!!! But if they are delisted soon and some hunting occurs, it will NOT be the end of the world. The Grizzly is smart and knows where to go and be away from us Stupid Two Leggeds! Most people including hunters are wayyy too lazy to go wayyy back into those wild nooks and crannies off the trails where the majority of the bears occur. Do think like Absarokanut that alot of these Environmental Organizations do it just for a big fund raising racket. Our society rather it is liberal left or conservative right is always always just about the money. And follow the money. But in those wayyy back deep wilds, one can have all the money in the world and it will be useless. And this is where so many of those bears occurs like around Younts Peak, Bruin Peak, Trident Plateau, Two ocean Plateau, etc. etc. etc. Also have heard that a grizzly or two just might still be wandering in those San Juan Mountains in Colorado.
Now could write a book here on the subject after a lifetime of wandering in the Yellowstone Wilds. Personally we Humans might be the endangered species soon with all of our techno stupidity and then soooo separated in our personal lives from anything wild. And where for most humans we spend a lifetime chasing after money and all the techno gadgets then ever going oe evening thinking about going into the deep wilds. Some years ago, in July of 2006 I had a close encounter with a Boar Grizzly. We were about 75 feet away from each other. And I stared straight into the bear's eyes while the grizzly stared straight into mine. It was one of the most highest points of this life. Hard to say it in words. But when I stared into those grizzly's eyes ... I saw soooo much wisdom and intelligence. And ever since I have really wondered that are we really the most smartest thing on this planet or perhaps not so much as we think. Just maybe maybe those Grizzlies, and Wolves, and Whales, and other wild critters have more intelligence then we humans do. If we had any intelligence do think we would not spend a lifetime chasing after how many green frog skins (dollar bills) we could put into our bank accounts. Maybe when it is all said and done, those Grizzlies and Wolves will still be here roaming the wilds long after we have gone.
Could say more but will leave it as this. Gooooo Grizzlies!!!!!!!! Just my opinion and two cents worth.
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