Grand Gulch Permits

Aldaron

Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2012
Messages
1,487
I'm too lazy to call BLM to ask this question...mainly because I'm afraid the answer would just spark an argument.

But does anyone know if they accept the America the Beautiful pass for parking at the Cedar Mesa trailheads?

I see no reason why they shouldn't, but I also see nothing on the web pages or the trailhead signs that say they do.
 
I do not know the answer to your question. But an amusing/interesting/related anecdote...

Several year ago, I called the Kane Gulch ranger station with the exact same question about the trailheads for Cedar Mesa and Grand Gulch. The person I talked to told me very specifically, very emphatically, that YES, my AtB/Parks Pass was all I needed to hike the canyons. So, for a couple of years, I proceeded to do just that. Put my American the Beautiful pass in my window and hike away to my hearts content.

Then, just last year, on a trip with Randy and Jared (IntrepidXJ and xjblue), hiking Sheiks canyon, the subject of annual passes/day passes came up and I told them no worries, I had an American the Beautiful pass and had been assured by the Kane Gulch rangers that it was just fine. They told me NO, it's NOT just fine.. Took about five seconds reading the sign at the trail head to find out they were right!

So, I have since paid for day use, since I don't get enough days in there to make an annual pass worth buying.

Morale of the story... Even if you did feel like calling, you might not get an accurate answer!

- DAA
 
I just realized in my early morning stupor that I wrote Grand Mesa when I meant to write Cedar Mesa. Ooops. Nick, can you fix that?

I've read those trailhead signs half a dozen times, and I've never come away knowing whether or not the AtB pass is accepted or not. It certainly does not say it IS accepted, but it also doesn't say it is NOT accepted.

What did you read on the sign that made you think it wasn't accepted, DAA?

From my understanding of the pass, they should accept it:

From: http://store.usgs.gov/pass/annual.html

The Forest Service, the National Park Service, Fish and Wildlife Service, Bureau of Land Management, and Bureau of Reclamation honor the Annual Pass at sites where Entrance or Standard Amenity Fee(s) are charged.

Entrance Fee: Fee charged to access lands managed by National Park Service or Fish and Wildlife Service.

Standard Amenity Fee: Fee charged for use of Bureau of Land Management, USDA Forest Service, and Reclamation sites that have a combination of basic amenities - picnic tables, trash receptacles, toilets, developed parking, interpretive signing, and security.

Expanded Amenity Fee: Fee charged for "the extras" that aren't basic entrance or standard amenity fees. Examples include: camp grounds, boat launches, cabins, and guided tours.

Special Recreation Permit Fee: Fee charged for special facilities and services such as rock climbing permits, commercial and vending use, off-road vehicle use, competitive and special events, organized group activities, and individual or group use of special areas.

How can they justify that the entire Cedar Mesa is a "special area." My understanding is that term is limited to specific places, such as a cave, within a particular park/location.
 
Fixed the title, Aldaron. I would think the same thing. It's legit to use that pass instead of buying a daily, weekly or annual pass in the Uintas for example. Why not Cedar Mesa?
 
I've read those trailhead signs half a dozen times, and I've never come away knowing whether or not the AtB pass is accepted or not. It certainly does not say it IS accepted, but it also doesn't say it is NOT accepted.

What did you read on the sign that made you think it wasn't accepted, DAA?

The signs do say it isn't accepted. The picture of an AtB pass with a big X through it was my first clue :D. Wish I'd taken a picture, but I saw that picture of an X'ed out AtB pass on the Cedar Mesa/GG trail head signs a couple times just this past weekend. The signs are about as explicit about not accepting those passes as they can be.

Like I said earlier, the funny part to me, is I went by what an actual ranger at Kane Gulch told me for a few years before ever actually READING one of those signs. The first time I did read one, it took me about five seconds to realize what I had been told, was wrong. So now I pay the $5 a week.

- DAA
 
P.S...

There seems to be considerable confusion about these passes out there. I have been told, by everyone I have ever talked to about it that had an opinion, that my AtB pass was NOT acceptable for using the Sand Flats area near Moab. But, every single time I have ever been there, I've showed my AtB pass at the entrance station and been handed a map and let through without paying.

Honestly beats the heck out of me whether it is actually valid there or not. But as long as the folks at the entrance station keep letting me through with it, I'm not going to complain...

- DAA
 
Yep, they don't accept the America the Beautiful pass on Cedar Mesa. I pick up an annual Cedar Mesa permit, too.
 
I've looked several times at several signs, and I've definitely never seen a picture of an AtB pass with an X going through it. The most recent sign I looked at was at the North Fork of Mule Canyon.

Is it different at trailheads outside of Grand Gulch? Or off the main part of Cedar Mesa?

Or are those signs new? I think I looked at North Fork Mule Canyon about a year ago.

And, thanks, Nick! I'm hoping my confusion was in crossing the wires of Grand Gulch and Cedar Mesa as I was typing!
 
And I should add that I actually bought the pass at North Fork Mule because I didn't want to risk a ticket by displaying the AtB pass.
 
I took this photo back in 2011 to show Dave that the AtB wasn't valid. I've seen this posted on most of the trailhead signs I've looked at up there for as long as I've been hiking on Cedar Mesa.

Sign.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAA
..and when you first posted this I was wondering why the hell you needed a permit to hike on the Grand Mesa, since it's mostly National Forest up there ;)
 
..and when you first posted this I was wondering why the hell you needed a permit to hike on the Grand Mesa, since it's mostly National Forest up there ;)

Yeah, I FELT like an idiot when I realized what I had said!

But, you guys are right...that's definitely clear. But I know I've never seen that on the signs I've seen.

And why would they call it a "Park Service" pass...I'm convinced that they're just out there doing whatever they want. And that's pretty much why I don't hike at Cedar Mesa! :)

This is almost one of those things that would make me get off my butt and write letters to people...but I've never gotten into the ruins thing enough to drive that far very often to make me deal with it.
 
I'm thinking about backpacking in Grand Gulch this coming week and realized the permit thing could be an issue. I'd call the office to check availability but they're closed so thought I'd post here.

1. Think there's any chance of getting advance permits 3 days in advance?

2. How tough are walk-in's for a small group? Say 2-4 people. Sounds like you just have to be there first thing and it should be good, but are there often people lined up ahead of time?

3. Any awesome areas out there to occupy a 4 day trip that don't require overnight permits? I know I could head over towards Dark Canyon but I'd kinda like to get into Grand Gulch and all awesome ruins and such.
 
Just spent a few days at Grand Gulch last week, and finally saw a sign with one of those America the Beautiful Pass "not valid" notes. The more I think about this, the angrier it makes me, and I can't understand how the BLM can justify this. I can't seem to find anything online with people complaining about it (my Google search brought me here...), nor can I find any explanation from the BLM. I really feel like they're just being cowboy out there in the middle of nowhere, and it ticks me off. I'm tempted to write the congressmen and demand an explanation. I find it hard to believe that no one has complained before, though.
 
I doubt congressmen know anything about the pass... Or care... Especially in Utah...

It makes absolutely no sense for the AtB pass to not count as a valid day use permit. It gains you access to areas with standard amenities by waiving entrance fees. Day use hiking is a standard amenity and this is accepted across all federal land management.

The only way I can see any justification is the potential "threat" to archeological sites. Not allowing the pass displaces a lot of visitors that don't want to pay the extra and thus those resources see less visitation and "threat."

It is worth the effort to get some explanation from the BLM on this. While they do have the authority to not accept the pass, the area is public land and without any significant and forthright excuse this is pretty underhanded.
 
Use fees........ not the only place the AtB doesn't work. They set where ....
All the fees charged there are supposed to stay at GG. I don't mind if the money stays where its collected.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
RyanP Grand Gulch last-minute questions Trip Planning 14
fiber Lower Grand Gulch Pour-off Trip Planning 9
C Grand Gulch Cedar Mesa Utah 11 Day Backpack October 2022 Backpacking 10
TrailScot Dripping Canyon to Grand Gulch, Cedar Mesa, Utah - March 2022 Hiking & Camping 7
H Access to Grand Gulch via Water Canyon Trip Planning 2
D Springs in Grand Gulch 2022 Trip Planning 21
D Grand Gulch Shuttle Trip Planning 4
TrailScot Step Canyon access to Grand Gulch, Cedar Mesa Trip Planning 17
J Grand Gulch (Kane to Bullet) Water Availability Trip Planning 9
gnwatts Grand Gulch, 11-13-20 Backpacking 30
gnwatts Grand Gulch water Trip Planning 6
fossana Grand Gulch Pt 2 - Todie to Sheiks loop Hiking & Camping 9
fossana Grand Gulch Pt 1 - Slickhorn 3rd to Trail Fork loop Hiking & Camping 6
P Grand Gulch Water/Alternative Trip Trip Planning 3
J Grand Gulch Impassable? Trip Planning 8
IntrepidXJ Grand Gulch: Pollys Canyon to Collins Canyon Backpacking 1
IntrepidXJ Lower Grand Gulch Backpacking 5
kansas Hunting in Grand Gulch Trip Planning 3
LarryBoy Water Sources in Lower Grand Gulch Trip Planning 15
Bob Grand Gulch, Short Trip Backpacking 6
Bob Grand Gulch Area Weekend Trip Meet Up (Members Only) 1
Bob Grand Gulch - Moonhouse Backpacking 2
westerner54 Government Trail to Big Man Pictographs, Grand Gulch Utah Backpacking 3
westerner54 Lower Grand Gulch, Below the Narrows Backpacking 3
pixie1339 Grand Gulch Spring Conditions Trip Planning 3
Bob Backpacking into Shangri-la Canyon into Grand Gulch and out Water Canyon Resource Discussions 10
markj Meet up, Grand Gulch- May 8-11. Trip Planning 0
Bob Grand Gulch Meet Up (Members Only) 2
Bob Beta needed Grand Gulch area Trip Planning 6
NAYR Grand Gulch Must Sees. Trip Planning 3
Don Cedar Mesa / Grand Gulch (Mar 6-9) Trip Planning 8
DAA Grand Gulch, 4/27 - 4/30/13 Backpacking 15
Nurrgle Grand Gulch Trip Planning 3
pixie1339 Grand Gulch Question Trip Planning 4
desertvic The Grand Staircase Escalante NM needs you! Meet Up (Members Only) 1
TractorDoc Paintbrush Canyon / Cascade Canyon Loop -- Grand Teton NP September 11, 2023 Hiking & Camping 9
D Grand Teton Cascade Loop Trip Planning 1
TheMountainRabbit Request: Grand Teton Ascent Trip Planning 0
Janice Such a GRAND Canyon - Deer Creek / Tapeats / Thunder River Backpacking 21
M Mee/Knowles Canyon Loop, Grand Junction Colorado Backpacking 4
OldBill Short hike at the Grand Canyon of Pennsylvania Hiking & Camping 1
TheMountainRabbit Ortenburger Lake, Talus Lake, & Glacier Peak (Grand Teton NP) - October 2023 Backpacking 14
TheMountainRabbit Invite Grand Teton NP, October 7th-10th 2023 Meet Up (Members Only) 0
fossana Public comment for revised Grand Staircase Escalante NM management plan (comments open 11 Aug - 9 Nov) General Discussion 11
Bob The New Grand Canyon Trip Planning 1
F Grand Canyon hermits rest to granite rapids to bright angel Trip Planning 10
NorthwestWanderer Backpacking Grand Teton National Park : Fossil Pass,Fox Creek Pass,Indian Lake,Alaska Basin,Hurricane Pass,Ice Floe Lake,& Snowdrift Lake Backpacking 19
dennisrodman A week in the Grand Canyon / Boucher / Hermit / Tonto Trail Trip Planning 4
futurafree Grand Canyon norovirus General Discussion 6
PaulMags Grand - Moab Route Backpacking 1

Similar threads

Back
Top