government shutdown effects on national forests?

[futurafree]

If we get a long shutdown as many are predicting, I know my Grand Canyon NP trip should be fine since both AZ and UT state governments are preparing to pay to keep the parks open. (they get $15 back for every $1 spent)
But does anyone know about Wilderness Areas and National Forests? Specifically Kanab Creek Wilderness and the Gila? I'm having trouble researching what happened the last time they pulled this shit, and Google generally gives you National Park info when you search. Otherwise it seems like maybe a hodgepodge of different National Forests banned use and others didn't?

 

[Kmatjhwy]

Do think most of the time the National Forests have stayed open. At least it seems up here in Wyoming. The land in the forest might stay open but the local National Forest office might be closed. Do know that even if the parks and such close, the law enforcement personnel will still be working. This has been the case in GTNP and Yellowstone on past occasions. They will be working looking over everything just in case some hoodlums try to take advantage of everything. This is if I remember right.

 

[TheMountainRabbit]

In my experience, it has varied by length of the shutdown. For the shorter ones, it's generally just National Park (or similarly high profile) facilities that are affected. For the longer ones, I've run into barricaded access roads in CO a few times. But I've done a number of trips in "no permit required" wilderness areas during shutdowns and only once had to make any significant change.

To @Kmatjhwy's point about law enforcement rangers, I did once get confronted (rather harshly) by a ranger near the RMNP border during a shutdown, but after talking with him for a few minutes he gave me the OK to continue.

 

[ZLmtns]

Hunting seasons have already begun in the Western States. No way the National Forests and BLM lands will close.

 

[fossana]

This is the Forest Service's shutdown contingency plan from 2018. Excerpt from which employees are expected to work during a shutdown:

• Category I – Law Enforcement and Health and Safety (excepted)
• Category II – Activities not included in Category I and III; financed from available funds, where applicable (exempt)
• Category III – Protect Life and Property (excepted)• Non-excepted category

REI had a blog post on what was and was not closed in the 2018-9 shutdown.

 

[SteveR]

Hmm...something to consider, as we anticipate heading to SE Utah, likely mid next week. Sounds like the Canada/US border will still be staffed, but from what we heard from friends who crossed during the 2013 shutdown, things were moving slower than usual (which isn't that fast!). We had been in the Grand Staircase-Escalante area for a few days before the 2013 shutdown, and noticed that things got busier as people were turned away from the NP's, before the state stepped up with funding. Mostly we will be on BLM lands, but Capitol Reef is also on this years agenda, so we shall see...

 

[Jackson]

This is on my mind as I head out for a 4-nighter in Yellowstone tomorrow... My friend said in YNP they actually rounded up backpackers and had them hike out last time this happened. I'm really hoping that doesn't happen to us haha.

 

[OldBill]

they actually rounded up backpackers and had them hike out

That certainly seems extreme. Wasting even more limited resources on the areas of least concern. Then again, we are talking about government...

 

[IntrepidXJ]

This is on my mind as I head out for a 4-nighter in Yellowstone tomorrow... My friend said in YNP they actually rounded up backpackers and had them hike out last time this happened. I'm really hoping that doesn't happen to us haha.

That seems a bit extreme. I've never been a fan of the parks and public lands getting closed during government shutdowns, but then every time it happens and I see how people treat these places when no one is watching, I am reminded why it is unfortunately necessary to close them down. Too many people just do not respect these places and cannot clean up after themselves...

 

[Bob]

That seems a bit extreme. I've never been a fan of the parks and public lands getting closed during government shutdowns, but then every time it happens and I see how people treat these places when no one is watching, I am reminded why it is unfortunately necessary to close them down. Too many people just do not respect these places and cannot clean up after themselves...

Some people will run wild and ruin it for the rest

 

[shredhiker]

Starting to wonder about that myself. I'm supposed to fly out to Fresno for a Yosemite trip in a few weeks, hoping if that's a bust I'll still have options in other wilderness areas.

 

[balzaccom]

A someone who volunteers in a couple of different national forests, I have been instructed to terminate any volunteer activities immediately if the Govt,. shuts down--to the point of not wearing the volunteer shirt in the back country after that date, even if you are just hiking out.

National Parks may well close, based on what happened at Joshua Tree a few years ago. National forests may be open, without staff.

 

[TheMountainRabbit]

National Parks may well close, based on what happened at Joshua Tree a few years ago. National forests may be open, without staff.

So far it sounds like this shutdown will be much more "complete" in regards to National Parks due to the widespread damage that was done during the last few "partial" shutdowns. A shame, but almost certainly for the best.

 

[RyanP]

If we get a long shutdown as many are predicting, I know my Grand Canyon NP trip should be fine since both AZ and UT state governments are preparing to pay to keep the parks open.

Is this actually true? I just called the ranger station at Canyonlands (since I have an upcoming trip there), and they said they had received no formal guidance on this yet and that it wasn't really known yet what type of shutdown of the park, if any, will happen if the government shuts down.

 

[TheMountainRabbit]

Is this actually true? I just called the ranger station at Canyonlands (since I have an upcoming trip there), and they said they had received no formal guidance on this yet and that it wasn't really known yet what type of shutdown of the park, if any, will happen if the government shuts down.

They've done it in the past. My understanding is that the federal government would still need to approve this, so they may not want to make any promises. The state(s) also might not cover all National Parks in the state(s) - just the ones where there is a particularly strong economic incentive. (Or they might not cover all areas of the park - which could be particularly relevant for multi-district parks like Canyonlands.)

If I had a trip planned that required federal permitting, I'd be putting together an alternative and hoping I don't need it.

 

[futurafree]

Is this actually true? I just called the ranger station at Canyonlands (since I have an upcoming trip there), and they said they had received no formal guidance on this yet and that it wasn't really known yet what type of shutdown of the park, if any, will happen if the government shuts down.

The federal government has already approved the states' ability to pay to keep parks open. Below text is as much clarity as I got from the NY Times today. I thought I'd read yesterday that it would be all UT National parks, but now I'm not so sure since it's unclear if this is an exhaustive list.

"Not all parks will close. The Interior Department said states and local governments that wanted to keep specific parks operating could do so, if they paid the federal government." ... "The governors of Arizona and Utah have already said they plan to pay to keep the gates open at parks including the Grand Canyon, Zion, Arches and Bryce Canyon."

 

[wildwesthikes]

Cancel cancel cancel. Go to Vegas instead and put that $11 recreation.gov refund on BLACK. As in the color of a burnt down pine forest.

 

[fossana]

Excerpts from this morning's SL Trib article:

When he [UT's Gov] reiterated on Thursday the state’s willingness to support Arches, Canyonlands, Capitol Reef, Bryce Canyon and Zion national parks during the shutdown, Gov. Cox specified he expected to get the money back. In a statement texted to the Tribune following the Department of the Interior’s announcement, he said Utah would continue to keep its parks open....

The governor’s office estimates Utah’s local economies will lose $7.1 million per day for every day the federal government remains closed...

The state has set aside $5 million to run the parks, [Vicki] Varela [, director of the Utah Office of Tourism] said. That money will come from the industrial assistance account held by the Governor’s Office of Economic Opportunity. It provides funds, Varela said, for “unusual, timely opportunities or challenges...”

Varela said the state plans to circumvent the federal government and hand the funds to cover basic operating expenses over to various foundations that have established themselves as caretakers for the parks.

DoI said there's no reimbursement guarantees, so I don't know how that will impact the state's plans.

 

[RyanP]

Thanks all for the input. Sounds like we'll probably/hopefully be fine.

 

[Pringles]

I got a permit yesterday, for Yellowstone tonight. I’ll be in the backcountry when the witching hour happens. They told me they didn’t know how things would play out. The man who issued the permit did say that there might be a chance that my car would have a note on it, that said I was to proceed to the nearest exit to leave. Boldly, I shall state that I am going to the exit near where I wish to end up! (I’ll probably end up in jail for that.) But I’m getting that one, last evening beside a lake. I’ve been out so little this year, and my Amazon device has been showing me pictures from past trips, and the pictures are so serene. I want one last dose of serene before winter.