Coyote Gulch Pit Toilet Destroyed?

Nick

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I got a comment on my old blog this weekend from a guy saying that the bathroom up by Lobo Arch in Coyote Gulch was destroyed in summer 2012. Anyone know anything about that? He also said that he talked to the Escalante VC and they said they won't be replacing it.

Seems like it would be well out of the way of a flood where it was at so I'm really curious what might have happened. Also curious if there's debris there or if they cleaned it up. Did you notice anything on your recent trip ashergrey?
 
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#2
In June 2012, I was told by a ranger of the GSENM Visitor Center in Escalante that this bathroom had just been burnt probably by some stupid guys and that the cost to replace it should be heavy as they needed an helicopter to bring it. That's sad...
 

Dave

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#3
I didn't notice... the toilet downstream seemed fine but I didn't bother going up to the one in question.
 

Yvonne

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#4
last June it was still intact.

In June 2012, I was told by a ranger of the GSENM Visitor Center in Escalante that this bathroom had just been burnt probably by some stupid guys and that the cost to replace it should be heavy as they needed an helicopter to bring it. That's sad...
that really sucks. :mad:
When did you talk to the ranger Philippe? We were in Coyote Gulch beginning of June and both toilets were intact
 

Dave

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#6
Considering the dog tracks and campfires I saw during my visit, plenty. People don't care about the rules.
 
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Considering the dog tracks and campfires I saw during my visit, plenty. People don't care about the rules.
yep. for better for worse, you can expect coyote gulch to be put on a lottery/permit system in the near future. the worse part being, an exacerbation of pressure to the other equally wonderful and delicate areas along the HITRD.

...deeper into the wilderness i go.
 

Nick

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Thread starter #14
The other one is in the lower 1/3 of the canyon on the north side of the river, below the bigger waterfalls and right next to a nice little cascade.
 

NAYR

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#15
I got a comment on my old blog this weekend from a guy saying that the bathroom up by Lobo Arch in Coyote Gulch was destroyed in summer 2012. Anyone know anything about that? He also said that he talked to the Escalante VC and they said they won't be replacing it.

Seems like it would be well out of the way of a flood where it was at so I'm really curious what might have happened. Also curious if there's debris there or if they cleaned it up. Did you notice anything on your recent trip ashergrey?
My instructor heard similar reasoning for them not replacing the potty! I was bummed out when I found out it had been vandalized/burnt down. And going along with the lack of rule enforcement we saw some interesting LNT practices being completely disregarded this last weekend. haha We found that girl more than half naked brushing her teeth and bathing herself in the waterfall just above cliff arch. We saw fires, dogs and all sorts of other great stuff too! Just good times!
 
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#16
I found out just yesterday the pit toilet at the Jacob Hamblin Arch had been burned. I stopped by the visitor center in Escalante and was stunned to read and then hear the details that apparently have not been revealed publicly. Here is precisely what I was told by one of the staff members at the visitor center.

On the night in June the incident happened, two Boy Scout troops were camping in the area. A group of boys 17-18 years old in one troop from the Phoenix, Arizona area, to use the staff members term, purposely "exploded" the toilet. The other troop from American Fork, Utah, witnessed the incident, took pictures of it, and tried to put out the fire while the troop and leaders from Phoenix, refused to assist.

The American Fork troop prevented the fire from spreading to the dry hillside. The AZ troop meanwhile packed up quickly and their leaders hiked them out of Coyote at night and left the area. The American Fork troop reported the incident to the visitor center in Escalante. The entire incident has been reported to the national park service and it is in their hands to pursue recovery of damage costs. I was told the toilet, with labor, materials and flying it in originally by helicopter to the site, cost $100K and won't be replaced due to lack of budget.

I was so angry when I heard the details I fumed all the way home. I wrote the Boy Scouts of America last night requesting their response and what they intended to do in terms assisting recovery of damages for the park service.
 

slc_dan

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#17
oh man. That makes me rage.

Phoenix already has a bad a bad rap for me.
 

Nick

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Thanks for sharing that, Charlie. Infuriating, but good to know the story. I'm pretty stunned that the boys involved, the troop or the BSA in general is apparently not being held liable to pay the costs to replace the toilet. :facepalm:
 

Tyler

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#19
I found out just yesterday the pit toilet at the Jacob Hamblin Arch had been burned. I stopped by the visitor center in Escalante and was stunned to read and then hear the details that apparently have not been revealed publicly. Here is precisely what I was told by one of the staff members at the visitor center.

On the night in June the incident happened, two Boy Scout troops were camping in the area. A group of boys 17-18 years old in one troop from the Phoenix, Arizona area, to use the staff members term, purposely "exploded" the toilet. The other troop from American Fork, Utah, witnessed the incident, took pictures of it, and tried to put out the fire while the troop and leaders from Phoenix, refused to assist.

The American Fork troop prevented the fire from spreading to the dry hillside. The AZ troop meanwhile packed up quickly and their leaders hiked them out of Coyote at night and left the area. The American Fork troop reported the incident to the visitor center in Escalante. The entire incident has been reported to the national park service and it is in their hands to pursue recovery of damage costs. I was told the toilet, with labor, materials and flying it in originally by helicopter to the site, cost $100K and won't be replaced due to lack of budget.

I was so angry when I heard the details I fumed all the way home. I wrote the Boy Scouts of America last night requesting their response and what they intended to do in terms assisting recovery of damages for the park service.
This strikes quite a nerve with me. I say this while I'm about to pack up some Boy Scouts this weekend and take them to the San Rafael Swell for the first time. I've lost count how many times I've seen troops of Boy Scouts that lack any regard for nature rules, going off the trail, breaking branches off trees, tossing their trash on the ground, etc. while their leaders just stand there and stare off without taking any time to teach the boys. I think this is a leadership issue and not necessarily a "boy" issue as I think it's sometimes in a teenage boy's intentions to bend/break rules and to be messy. However the BSA was designed for kids to be able to respect and enjoy the outdoors.

One thing I like about my son's scout leader is that he is adamant they repeat the outdoor code at every meeting, which I was never required to do. At our pre-camp meeting this week I spoke specifically about obeying the rules and anyone found not obeying will receive a swift kick in the rear by me.

I'm glad to see that the AF Troop was willing to help make up for someone else's mistakes, but I'd be all over that Phoenix troops leaders if I saw them trying to get out of dodge. I'd follow them to their cars and get license plate numbers. This seriously pisses me off. I hope something comes of your letter to the BSA. All BSA troops are required to fill out travel permits before they go on a long trip like that, so the local council should have something on this troop and who went.
 
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#20
............ The entire incident has been reported to the national park service and it is in their hands to pursue recovery of damage costs. I was told the toilet, with labor, materials and flying it in originally by helicopter to the site, cost $100K and won't be replaced due to lack of budget.

I was so angry when I heard the details I fumed all the way home. I wrote the Boy Scouts of America last night requesting their response and what they intended to do in terms assisting recovery of damages for the park service.
Time to mount a "write-in' email complaint campaign. If possible please post email address, phone numbers, and snail-mail addresses for the main BSA, the criminal BSA troop and the good BSA troop(for thank yous). Then spread the word to all blogs, forums, facebook sites possible for outdoor enthusiast.
Another good gesture might be to offer repair assistance. Have a BCP rebuild weekend. Tell the parks and BSA that BCP would be willing to supply the muscle if BSA would supply the materials. Not certain if your group has the skills necessary but if you do might be some good karma in this. There might be some special skills for a pit toilet, don't know.
A lot of local outdoor groups around here maintain most of the mnt. bike trails, repair climbing areas, etc. In fact this wknd Mid Atlantic Climbers are doing major repairs to the Illchester crag in my hood. We will be doing major erosion control, bldg steps, moving rock. repairing anchors etc.
http://www.midatlanticclimbers.org/

Please do post info for others. People will email/call if they easily have access to needed info.

Another Charlie:)
 

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