Jasper Canyon in The Maze

[Nick]

As many probably know, Jasper Canyon is a canyon in The Maze between Shot Canyon and The Maze proper that is closed to all human access by the park service. It's the only canyon out there that has never been grazed so I guess they want to use it as a sort of scientific control to gauge human impact on the area, kind of like Virginia Park in The Needles.

But on this latest trip into The Maze, we encountered not one but two separate groups who had hiked Jasper. One small group of backpackers that did the whole thing and one very large group of people running the river that hiked up from the bottom and said it was the coolest thing they saw in more than a week on the river.

Anyone know anything about it? Is there anything that stops people floating the Green River from hiking in from the bottom? And what are your thoughts in general on the NPS permanently closing public lands?

P.S. NPS, I know you'll probably read this, feel free to respond.

MODERATOR NOTE: Post edited to remove provocative language.

 

[ogdendude]

Based on TR's and pictures from other people, both Jasper Canyon and Virginia Park get visited by some people, and those some people don't seem to be very worried about the consequences since they have their pictures and sometimes names all findable on the internet. So apparently the FBI is not tracking them down. It seems a little odd to have places that are totally closed. You'd think permit system could work. But it is almost as though the closed status might make them more sought after. The Holy Grail of canyons.

 

[Bob]

lol................ closed like the canyon west of labyrinth Falls in Zion................ I'm not saying anything.

 

[Nick]

Agreed. At least do a permit system, even if it's extremely limited. Outright closing it is almost like taunting people to just go anyway.

 

[moose droppings]

Jasper Canyon... ...the only canyon out there that has never been grazed

holy shit! a patch of land, in the desert of all places, that has not been grazed on? wow, i've gotta visit this place to believe it. i'm quite positive that Ranchers For Grazing On Unsustainable/Inhospitable Lands are lobbying hatch, lee, chaffetz, to open up those canyons. so, its best that BCP put together a Jasper Cyn Fest before its trampled under hoof...

all humor aside.

i have two questions.

1. Did the NPS post closure signs at the obvious entry/exit points, or is it just a verbal warning given to those picking up area permits at the backcountry desk?

2. what were the group's demographics? boy scouts?

 

[Nick]

1. Did the NPS post closure signs at the obvious entry/exit points, or is it just a verbal warning given to those picking up area permits at the backcountry desk?

I have never noticed one anywhere on the rim from up in the Land of Standing Rocks. I did some googling and didn't find any mention of one on the other end either, so perhaps not? Pretty sure I've seen pics of a sign near Virginia Park (same situation but in the Needles) that said no access. I suppose just finding a route down into it from the top could be quite the adventure with the lack of information around. The smaller group that did it when we were out there got dropped off at Spanish Bottom and packed up through the Dollhouse to get to it. They then descended Jasper and pack rafted back to the confluence to get picked up by the jet boat. Sounds like one hell of a fun trip...

2. what were the group's demographics? boy scouts?

It was a large group of college kids from back east somewhere. I tried to pawn some of our beer off on them and their leaders wouldn't let them.

 

[Nick]

From googling, it seems pretty common to hike up from the bottom on river trips...

http://www.catlin.edu/news/outdoor-program/1637.html

 

[ogdendude]

Picture of a kid who thinks that running around looking for "Indian Pictures" is a normal thing to do:

While this isn't the Maze, the TR did include the Great Gallery. So it is on topic.

 

[ogdendude]

This is the Maze Overlook campsite:

I highly recommend it. Easier to get to than Land of Standing Rocks. Great views. Nice flat site. Access to the Harvest Scene.

Here is another view of the Maze Overlook campsite:

This was Labor Day weekend 2004. Didn't see any other people or even traces of other people. Very comfortable temperature. Camping went so well we got married four months later.
Here is also my 99 4Runner which is now sporting a BCP sticker. 240,000 miles on it and some of those miles weren't so easy (Flint Trail). Don't see any reason not to keep it for a while.

 

[slc_dan]

I haven't even been into the Maze yet, but talking about going into one of the canyons the park service has deemed "off limits" is not at all in the proximity of "radical" in my mind.

 

[lostlandscapes]

My two cents: if Jasper Canyon is closed for reasons of biodiversity and ecological integrity (i.e. hasn't been grazed) then we should respect that and stay out of it. Just cuz a few folks may or may not be poaching it doesn't mean that we should feel licensed or entitled to do the same. Am I curious about what's inside of there? Of course. But is it going to be all that much mind-blowingly different from what you can find in neighboring Shot and Water Canyons? No. There are thousands of canyons that we can choose to explore and ramble through to our hearts content in southern Utah. I don't think it's a terrible thing to leave a few alone.

 

[Nick]

I tend to agree on closing a few areas for the scientific, biodiversity aspect. Hell, I'd like to see a lot more wilderness and a lot less cows and other unnatural things in a lot of places. It's just frustrating to see so many people on just that one trip that had done it. Maybe it was a fluke and it's actually a very rare occurrence, or perhaps it's totally common. I'd really like to know. If people are poaching it at even half that rate, it seems this particular closure is not all that effective.

 

[lostlandscapes]

They certainly need better signage if they want the closure to be more effective. But then again, more signage is a serious drain on the wilderness experience.

 

[ogdendude]

I was a bit surprised in your blog about Salt Creek that the NPS contacted you. That means that they have employees whose job it is to troll the internet looking for content that gives away the locations of stuff they don't want people to find. It is a bit strange to know that the NPS is searching for and contacting people to ask them to take the info down.
It is even more strange since places like Salt Creek are so well published already. In Kelsey's books as well as Ruins Seldom Seen, there is all kinds of information with maps on Salt Creek. Not to mention the USGS topo naming All American Man. So the toothpaste is out of the tube on that area. Has the NPS contacted Kelsey? Probably so. I have been surprised once or twice in Kelsey's books where he doesn't mention something in a particular place and I have a hard time believing he didn't know it was there.
This story about the NPS contacting you explains an experience I had once. I found a great site (see my profile pic) and I found it by a Flickr picture GPS placement. Then a while later I noticed that the picture was gone. So it seems quite possible that someone contacted the Flickr poster and asked them to remove it.

 

[Bill]

I was a bit surprised in your blog about Salt Creek that the NPS contacted you. That means that they have employees whose job it is to troll the internet looking for content that gives away the locations of stuff they don't want people to find. It is a bit strange to know that the NPS is searching for and contacting people to ask them to take the info down.

Not strange at all. In fact they're happy to send you a ticket in the mail if the need arises. I'm sure Nick would be willing to tell you why they asked him to edit his trip report if you asked him offline.

 

[Nick]

For anyone coming upon this thread later on, I removed two lines and reworded a few things so that the original post didn't come across as being quite so provocative. One line asking if anyone knows what the fine is for poaching it and one line to the effect of "If everyone else is doing it, why aren't I?". A largely rhetorical statement of course. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to think I condone poaching closed or permitted areas. I love to have open discussion of how public land is used and managed and felt that statement would provoke thought, not ruffle feathers.

Per request, I also removed a few subsequent posts that are now moot because of the change in the OP.

 

[mattvogt7]

I remember reading something recently in one of Kelsey's book where he goes off on a bit of a rant. Apparently, as he states it, he published some info about some granaries in Jasper and (again according to him) some employee at the NPS went crazy and thought there was going to be crazy foot traffic into the maze due to Kelsey's descriptions. I know his books are not sold at Canyonlands so the frustration resides on both sides. I think he ended the paragraph with a tongue in cheek comment about "us hikers tresspassing on the NPS private reserve." I've heard a lot of people who agree with his thoughts and those that don't, but none the less I think he is a pretty provocative guy.

 

[Ranger Joe]

When my wife and I camped at the Dollhouse two years ago, we were told by the ranger at Han Solo Flat Ranger Station that Jasper Canyon was off-limits because it had never been grazed and that the NPS was doing field studies there. We saw no signs along the way indicating any sort of obvious closure.

Virginia Park was a little different. At the Needles Visitor Center a year before, I made an offhand comment about Virginia Park to the ranger there...he seemed like the alien in the 3rd Star Trek movie who was asked by Dr. McCoy about the Genesis Planet ("Virginia Park allowed is not! Is area forbidden!!") We inquired about it again when we got our permits for Devil's Kitchen the following year, and we were told that the NPS leads a once-a-year trip into Virginia Park in the fall. We were handed a sign-up sheet that asked for name and address...some months later we got a letter from the NPS asking if we were still interested (we were, but couldn't afford to drive back to Utah from Ohio). They don't really advertise it, but it is possible to go there legally if you do it on the NPS terms.

 

[NateGeesaman]

Just sayin... When we walked along Jasper Ridge above the canyon looking in, it had a great lush look to it different than the others. We didn't see or hear of anyone down there. Also, we saw a ranger solo backpacking not too far from Jasper and I know they are out there watching for stuff like that.