Interesting Thread on Another Hiking Forum

Yeah, for all its convenience, online permit reservations seem like a downgrade in some ways.

I guess this makes me slightly happy Yellowstone does its version of the lottery system first. Doesn't matter when you enter your submission as long as its before the deadline. But my dislike of competing for permits is why I so rarely go anywhere that requires a permit that's only available in a limited quantity.
 
Just more examples of people in it for themselves nomatter the cost or effect to others........ gaming the system.
It will just get worse, like everything else.
 
i might catch shit for this, but id be interested to see more concrete evidence that bots are actually manipulating the supply. its obvious that it can be done, but is it being done? Booze-Allen should know, but like someone in the other thread suggested, do they care, so long as they are raking in the "service fee"?

obviously resale (transfer) of reservations seems like a terrible idea, because it would open the door for scalpers gouging people.

tough to find the perfect solution when it comes to reservations it seems.
 
I tried to get campsites at Slough Creek this summer. Had everything ready to go at 7 am on the day they were released and by the time I got ready to reserve and pay... all gone. And it was 7:00 still. There's something up.
 
a lot here in Washington State is a lottery system and permits via Recreation.gov.
I don't like it so much, especially the early access lottery systems for Mount Rainier and North Cascades NP. For these two parks, you barely have a chance of snagging a permit after the early lotteries are done which really sucks.
Recreation.gov also has lots of glitches, especially when using the app which can be super frustrating.

I did enter the lottery for the Enchantments and hit the jackpot right away on my first try and got a permit during the peak season of the larches in early October. After I heard that folks were unsuccessful for 20 years I feel really lucky about my permit.
 
Personally do think something is up and there is truth to this story. In April I spent near two weeks up in Zion NP. I was able to snag campsites via Recreation. Gov. Later at recreation it said all the campsites were filled. But when I was there was absolutely shocked ... shocked to see just how many campsites (multiple sites) were still empty and were never filled. Think people would cancel to get back their money. It is either bots or there is a bunch of people who don't care. Some nights it seemed as if a third or more of the campsites in the campground were empty. Think it will just get worse. Do like to go to those areas where reservations are not required.

Now as for personal things, it is off to the PNW and Alaska again. Enjoy Life!
 
Last edited:
i might catch shit for this, but id be interested to see more concrete evidence that bots are actually manipulating the supply. its obvious that it can be done, but is it being done? Booze-Allen should know, but like someone in the other thread suggested, do they care, so long as they are raking in the "service fee"?

obviously resale (transfer) of reservations seems like a terrible idea, because it would open the door for scalpers gouging people.

tough to find the perfect solution when it comes to reservations it seems.
This is 100% happening, at least with cancelled permits. My anecdotal experience: I did a trip last year with a friend that created an algorithm that would ping selected backcountry sites on Rec.gov every 5 minutes to see if they came available, while it wouldn't book for you, it would let you know if a site you wanted for a specified set of dates is available. Could be shifted to work regular campsites too, anything on rec.gov. Additionally, I definitely saw recently a subscription based (just googled, there are more than one) services that will do this for you. Scan backcountry or frontcountry campground on the online services like rec.gov and text you when the site you want becomes available on the dates you want. This existing alone sucks, and monetizing that seems pretty horrible to me.

While I'm not sure this is sucking up all the permits, it's definitely a thing. I'm not sure there is a perfect system, but the lottery system in Yellowstone and Glacier seem best and most equitable to me. Though sometimes I think turning land into a national park or monument, and then other layers like adding a backcountry lottery only exacerbates the demand issue. For example, because there is a lottery, I made a reservation for a trip this year I'm not sure I'll have the time to do, but know that I would consider only if I had the permit. I'll obviously cancel if I don't plan to go well in advance, but I'm still negatively effecting supply. I can't be the only one doing this with the hot areas.

I don't think the time-release permit system is a good solve(i.e. June 6th permit opens @ 7AM PST on March 6, etc) because it favors those privileged with the time and energy to make themselves available AND plan a vacation months or years in advance. Holding a certain percentage of permits in reserve for walk-ups is also a good hedge for that, but unfortunately nothing is perfect.
 
i dont have a problem with a program that sends a message to people who want to know when X campsite becomes available. Honestly, that should probably be a feature of rec.gov, imo. A program that instantly reserves campsties as they come open and then resells them or whatever would be unfair and a problem.

i agree keeping walk-ups available is a good idea.
 
I reserved several nights in Mammoth for June, then changed my mind and came back when the rolling date was there for the days I wanted in July, then just did a change date. This leaves openings for prior dates, and when I go check, sometimes they're booked and and sometimes not for quite some time. You can change dates and also change sites, but not campgrounds. Maybe this is partly why prior dates are open.
 
Last edited:
i dont have a problem with a program that sends a message to people who want to know when X campsite becomes available. Honestly, that should probably be a feature of rec.gov, imo. A program that instantly reserves campsties as they come open and then resells them or whatever would be unfair and a problem.

i agree keeping walk-ups available is a good idea.
I understand that position. What bothers me is the current exclusivity of the feature, only available to tech or tech-adjacent, or those with the money to pay. Just goes against my personal values, but as they say, that's a me problem. :roflmao:
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
scatman Another Interesting Article General Discussion 6
Rockskipper You think you found a pithouse, or maybe an Ancestral Puebloan tower near Green River, UT? It's maybe something even more interesting... General Discussion 3
SeanIsADesertRat Interesting/mysterious patterns Needles District, Canyonlands General Discussion 19
scatman Interesting Article General Discussion 5
Rockskipper pay-for-bot-scanning services for National Park campsites - interesting comments General Discussion 1
Rockskipper Interesting article about dark sky parks General Discussion 12
scatman Interesting Article General Discussion 27
wsp_scott Interesting article about a wolf General Discussion 0
Rockskipper The Bees! Interesting article about a Canadian woman who decided to hike instead of dying General Discussion 3
Perry Interesting New One Person Tent - Review Video Added Gear 34
Perry Well This Looks interesting Gear 1
F Interesting Trip Everything Else 2
Perry Sierra Designs High Route 1FL Tent - Looks interesting Gear 6
Bob Interesting wind River Blog General Discussion 1
Laura Interesting article about wilderness General Discussion 17
Howells Outdoors Huh? Well that's interesting General Discussion 5
BeardoMcGrath Oh look yet another Utah conditions thread: mid May 2023 Trip Planning 9
Vegan.Hiker The Before/After thread General Discussion 435
muir_mountain (Updated Regularly) My Summer 2016 Backpacking Thread Backpacking 17
uintafly 2015/2016 All things snow thread General Discussion 50
Chuck the Mauler The "good morning" thread General Discussion 154
Chuck the Mauler The NFL thread General Discussion 95
Vegan.Hiker The "Caption this Photo" thread General Discussion 35
uintahiker Hammocks- the thread Gear 20
steve the grumpy thread General Discussion 47
slc_dan Too Good for the Cinema Thread-Andrew Bird in Coyote Gulch! General Discussion 3
Absarokanaut Your Appalachian Mountain Thread General Discussion 12
steve UL Backpacking: A Thread for the Gram Counters General Discussion 270
Kullaberg63 Packrafts. The thread. Gear 150
Nick The insect ID thread General Discussion 5
kwc Another Fall Day of Paddling On The Water 0
kwc Another Adirondack Hike Hiking & Camping 3
Rockskipper Did someone put another monolith on Mt. Wilbur in Glacier? General Discussion 14
kwc Another sunny day, another jaunt in the Southern Adirondacks Hiking & Camping 1
kwc Another short jaunt in the southern Adirondacks Hiking & Camping 0
kwc Another Southern Adirondacks hike - Clockmill Pond and Rock Lake Hiking & Camping 0
Mikjik86 Another Wind River Trip Planning! Elkhart/Titcomb/Knapsack/Shannons Pass loop back to Elkhart, or continue to Green River Lakes Trailhead? Trip Planning 10
kwc Yet Another Adirondack Paddle On The Water 1
Nethos Another water post(Bowdie/Midway) Trip Planning 10
kwc Another day, another Adirondack paddle On The Water 1
kwc Yet another Adirondack paddle On The Water 1
kwc Another Adirondack Paddle On The Water 0
kwc Another Adirondack fire tower Hiking & Camping 2
G another lurker converting to a non-lurker Noobs: Introduce yourself! 0
zionsky Another Fatality at AL General Discussion 40
Ben Longest you've gone without seeing another person General Discussion 17
kwc Another Hike in the Adirondacks 5/13/20 Hiking & Camping 3
kwc Yet Another Adirondack Hike 5/5/20 Hiking & Camping 1
kwc Another Adirondack Hike 4/23/20 Hiking & Camping 2
kwc Another Adirondack Paddle ... On The Water 0

Similar threads

Back
Top