Hydrophobic Down Test

interesting. I've never had a problem with regular old down, but I think hydrophobic down is very cool.
 
Regular down is pretty hydrophobic anyway - works o.k. for ducks & geese, right?

Since I never hear stories about people who have a clue getting into trouble because their down got wet, I've suspected that the looming wet down disaster was something made up for marketing. Now I suspect dry down is being marketed to address the made up problem.

Just the musings of an old curmudgeon from the west.
 
toejam said:
Regular down is pretty hydrophobic anyway - works o.k. for ducks & geese, right?

Since I never hear stories about people who have a clue getting into trouble because their down got wet, I've suspected that the looming wet down disaster was something made up for marketing. Now I suspect dry down is being marketed to address the made up problem.

Just the musings of an old curmudgeon from the west.
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I love down. Down Jacket and Down bag are the two best things I've ever purchased for backpacking in the dry west. I have yet to experience wetter conditions, but hiking in more humid climates can and do change the effectiveness of down.
 
toejam said:
Since I never hear stories about people who have a clue getting into trouble because their down got wet, I've suspected that the looming wet down disaster was something made up for marketing. Now I suspect dry down is being marketed to address the made up problem.
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I know what you mean. I suspect dry down is being marketed to address the REAL problem of lost revenue from some buyers who are afraid to buy down because of their fears of it getting wet (however irrational).
 
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One time it started raining when I was wearing my down jacket. I put on my rain jacket. The end.

Another time it started raining when I was sleeping in my down sleeping bag. I left the rain fly on the tent. The end.
 
Nick said:
But what about when you fall through the ice?!?! It could happen any minute!
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I was winter hiking in the White Mountains once and didn't realize for several hundred yards that I had accidentally veered off the trail and was hiking along the top of a frozen, snow covered creek. It looked just like the trail since it was a treeless corridor and I'd been breaking trail all day. I didn't realize what I had done until I approached a steeper section and could hear water rushing strongly beneath my feet. It was sub-zero, I was several hours from the closest TH and I hadn't seen another person all day. If I had fallen through I can't envision any other plausible outcome other than hypothermia. Even if it was only knee deep. It was one of those days where taking your balaclava off felt like a punch to the face.
 
Once down gets wet it is done for a long time and looks like a clump of $h!¥.

With normal down water resistance depends on what is containing the down/outer material such as nylon, pertex, gore tex or what ever.

I just picked up a MH down sleeping bag with Q Shield. I will post a review once I get a chance to use it. Don't hold your breath waiting for me to post a YouTube of me jumping into an icy lake. My son, maybe. I could probably talk him into it.
 
toejam said:
Regular down is pretty hydrophobic anyway - works o.k. for ducks & geese, right?

Since I never hear stories about people who have a clue getting into trouble because their down got wet, I've suspected that the looming wet down disaster was something made up for marketing. Now I suspect dry down is being marketed to address the made up problem.

Just the musings of an old curmudgeon from the west.
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I had a down jacket get wet last fall on a backpacking trip. It was like water hitting cotton candy once it made it through the shell. I didn't need it but I'm glad I didn't.
 
I just made my first down purchases, both a sleeping bag and a jacket, the last few months. Both of them have some form of this protection. I didn't necessarily seek it out, but a lot of them have it these days by default, and I figured it wouldn't hurt. I'm especially glad the jacket has it, as I can see that getting wet a lot more readily than the bag.
 
My Mountain Hardwear down sleeping bag with DryQ got wet so I thought I would get it really wet and see what happened.

1. Sleeping bag did not clump but dried in most areas after about an hour or two.

2. Areas near face and head lost hydrophobic properies. My guess is because of insect repellent and/or sun screen. These areas took for ever to dry.

3. I plan to wash up when using the bag in future.

4. Overall, I was really impressed. No longer concerned about a wet bag.
 
Neither Western Mountaineering nor Feathered Friends use treated down.
I wonder why?

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.
 
If you're not a complete doofus, you're not going to get your down stuff soaked. Plus "warm when wet" is a complete, bald-faced, pants-on-fire lie. Nothing is warm when wet. Physics doesn't work like that.

But I am interested to see if dry down can help with the "accumulated dampness" problem that every hiker faces. In cold/damp weather, everything eventually gets a little moist - and there's not much you can do about it besides waiting for the sun to come out to dry out your stuff. Consequently, that zero degree bag might start getting chilly at temps in the 20s because it's just a little damp. If dry down can maintain the integrity of a down products warmth when it's damp, I'm all for it.
 
Good reasoning, but it would take a controlled environment to evaluate the effectiveness of the treated down.
Wool does good job of being warmer than most fabrics when wet. I wouldn't want anything else next to my skin when wet.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.
 
LarryBoy said:
If you're not a complete doofus, you're not going to get your down stuff soaked. Plus "warm when wet" is a complete, bald-faced, pants-on-fire lie. Nothing is warm when wet. Physics doesn't work like that.

But I am interested to see if dry down can help with the "accumulated dampness" problem that every hiker faces. In cold/damp weather, everything eventually gets a little moist - and there's not much you can do about it besides waiting for the sun to come out to dry out your stuff. Consequently, that zero degree bag might start getting chilly at temps in the 20s because it's just a little damp. If dry down can maintain the integrity of a down products warmth when it's damp, I'm all for it.
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I was looking to see how it would handle moisture build up as well for use in very cold ( -20f or colder weather). As I watched the bag dry the water was repelled and transferred to the lining. This was not the case in other non-treated bags. It also maintained loft. This tends to support that it would work more effectively in cold weather to avoid moisture build up. IMO it would work much better.

As far as the bag getting a bag wet in real world settings...you never know.
 
pstm13 said:
I was looking to see how it would handle moisture build up as well for use in very cold ( -20f or colder weather). As I watched the bag dry the water was repelled and transferred to the lining. This was not the case in other non-treated bags. It also maintained loft. This tends to support that it would work more effectively in cold weather to avoid moisture build up. IMO it would work much better.

As far as the bag getting a bag wet in real world settings...you never know.
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Someone needs to buy a top-end bag with dry down and give it a thorough field review. Heck, I'd do it if everybody pitches in! :D
 
I have been involved with a company making down products since 2002. Recently I even purchased this very same business.

We get our down from a very reputable domestic supplier, used by other names in the field.

Here's our brief findings after working with dry-down for close to a year:

Dry treated down.

In this article we use the words ‘loft’ and ‘lofting’ to describe downs ability to expand after compression, and ‘fill power’ to define this lofting quality: the higher number the better.

We have been in close contact with premium quality down for more than 15 years, from when 750 fill power was the top shelf standard to current claims of 900 and beyond. Hand filling every bag and garment with down gives one an instant tactile quality assurance.

This year Nunatak introduced chemically treated moisture resistant down (hereafter: dry-down) as an option for all products. While stamped as having the same 900 fill power rating as the regular down offering, our assessment reveal distinct qualities setting these two types apart.

The short hand conclusion: Dry-down may offer a defense against moisture, but lacks in initial lofting ability. Long term lofting may not ever catch up to that of comparably rated untreated down.

The points of our findings:

*Yes, dry-down will ward off moisture. There’s a difference.

*When wet it’s of limited use, just like regular down – but it appears to dry much faster. Maybe the dry-down treatment limit the depth of the moisture infiltration.

*900 fill power is 900 fill power, right? Not. Dry-down, in the batches we have worked with, displays less initial lofting ability compared to regular down. Aggressive ‘fluffing up’ helps, but in our production process the end result is still inferior to regular down.

*Because of this, Nunatak have decided to add an extra percentage of fill to dry-down products to achieve a given temperature rating.

*Dry-down products from Nunatak will be heavier than stated in the specs, and will feel denser.

*After storage dry-down will take longer to loft up. Shaking, patting, massaging may be necessary.

*Remove your dry-down filled bag from its stuff sack as soon as the tent is up.

*On the trail take all the usual steps to limit your dry-down product’s exposure to moisture.
 
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