Backpacking into Shangri-la Canyon into Grand Gulch and out Water Canyon

Backpacking into Shangri-la Canyon into Grand Gulch and out Water Canyon 2014-05-07

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Bob

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#2
It's a blessing that's your download GPX does not contain gps point ...
Now, everyone, knows that this kiva is on your path, clearly draw ...
 

Bob

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Maybe ........maybe not. I didn't say where it is . It is not a 'unknown' to the rangers or anyone that has spent time in GG. It is in the lower canyon system, that is the given. There are also lots of "art" along 'my path' as there is thru the entire GG. My track is there for mileage purposes and the routes into canyons specified. You still have to look for any ruins and art.
 
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#4
I love to post new ruins and share the beauty of one special place like all in this forum, but I do not understand why people put the names of canyons, give map and much more ... This is my personal viewpoint.
In 20 years, there will be no more secrets and no more to research, there will be no more magic ...

This kiva is not the House on Fire on Mule Canyon or Moonhouse Ruins,
I remember 4 years old, The Citadel in internet, no clues or tips to find,
now much more site and map ...

Maybe Many are not interested in the magic of discovery or research, or they do not have the time, they want the information to go directly to the right spots and when they have they share to avoid research other.
 

gnwatts

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#5
I see both points of view. I have seen that kiva many years ago, and I would not divulge it's location (even if I could remember exactly where it is!). Bob, even though you did not reveal the kiva's exact location I believe you revealed too much. Make it hard too see this stuff, not easier. An alternative way to do that might be to share the images in a separate post by itself at a different time, and not tying them to your recent trip. We all like to share new cool things, but I feel we must be good stewards. I am not saying you aren't, or that divulging it's location is wrong, it's just not something we should be in the habit of doing IMO. You could call it "seldom seen kiva" (which is what I have always called it) somewhere in "lower Grand Gulch". Make people work for it. Just my $.02.
 

Bob

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..... my track shows three canyons it could be in ...... our trip was three nights........ what is harder, saying the hike is on Cedar Mesa? The track is a track.....just shows where I walked. I have thousands of sites located on topo maps........but I wouldn't post it online, it's way specific.

So same applies to everyone posting their pics and trip reports of other parts of Grand Gulch as well ?
... Shieks, Green Mask, Jail House, Bannister, Turkey Pen, Split level on and and on...... it is known they are in GG. Or showing a pic in Arch Canyon, Dark Canyon, maybe Coyote Canyon, Canyonlands or on Comb Ridge then in the text you are saying 'ruin' or 'art' or you post your track ....... you are in fact saying where the ruins generally are. Some people have more time and can keep 'secret' the spots they find, for their private viewing...... kind selfish in my book, they are on public land ...... "public". If I am asked I help with more specific info.

I have spent time looking for certain ruins / art, I do not have the time or money to spend weeks and weeks looking for one place. I have a lot to see and a limited amount of time to see it. Good example. It took me 8 years to find the Shaman's Panel in the GC after I first heard about it. By the time I got there, there was 'new' art and names inscribed on it.......someone who kept it their secret? Who knows. Just because its secret or known does not keep it from being vandalized.

I guess it's each to his own. I post tracks and say what I saw, but I do not post exact (as in cooridinates) on the internet. What one feels is giving away too much another is thankful for the general info, helping determine where to go on a trip.

Actually, the same could be said about posting backpacking trails / routes or slot canyons or 4x4, fat tire trails... posting these are giving the info away, making it easier for others to follow.

I realize there will always be two views on the issue. I don't rattle those who keep quiet or even those give out exact specifics..... I try to go in the middle with a general idea of what things are along where I have been ....... which is how I believe I posted my trip.
 

Snowpatch

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#7
This certainly is no beginner's trip. Wow that exit out of Water canyon was quite the adventure. In 4 days we saw only 1 other backpacker.
Thanks for posting this route and allowing us to discover this area of Utah. I notice that posting the photo of the kiva was controversial, but I thank you for doing so. We would not have discovered it without a little hint that it was even there.
I would not worry about the kiva being overrun with people. There was no obvious use trail to it. The area is quite remote and little traveled. And like I said at the beginning, this route is not for everyone.
 

Bob

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Glad you had a good trip...... And saw a few interesting things. Most of my trips are not beginner trips... I have a bit of a rep on this forum with my trips.. Although at sixty five most should be able to walk where I have walked.......
 
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#9
Glad you had a good trip...... And saw a few interesting things. Most of my trips are not beginner trips... I have a bit of a rep on this forum with my trips.. Although at sixty five most should be able to walk where I have walked.......
I don't think Bob gave out too much. I just hope that kiva is dry mouth hard to find. It's 2017 as I write this and now we have a monument (so far). There is flood of stuff now on the web and more is coming. Social media, GPS, and others has taken care of that. Now another way to protect has to be found. Secrets are near gone or will be soon. The saving grace on this site is that is very remote. I'm going. Next Spring. All mapped out. April come on!

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#10
I don't think Bob gave out too much. I just hope that kiva is dry mouth hard to find. It's 2017 as I write this and now we have a monument (so far). There is flood of stuff now on the web and more is coming. Social media, GPS, and others has taken care of that. Now another way to protect has to be found. Secrets are near gone or will be soon. The saving grace on this site is that is very remote. I'm going. Next Spring. All mapped out. April come on!

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Well as soon as I posted I found a photo of "Grand Gulch Kiva" on Trip Advisor. Trip Advisor! Sorry can't link to it in Tapatalk. So this Monday when I'm standing in the Kane Gulch Ranger station I'm going to ask, What are YOU going to do!? I already volunteered for their site steward program that died as soon as it was proposed. Now what?

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Dave

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#11
Don’t be too hard on the BLM folks, they largely want protection as much or more than recreationists. If you’re going to harp on someone, complain to Congress. Lawmakers need to allocate funds for staffing and law enforcement to put any kind of dent in the vandalism problem.
 

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