A segmented month in the Winds

[OldBill]

Covid permitting, I'll be in the Winds Aug 27-Oct 1.

1st week is solo, after golden trout, probably in the Popo Agie, depending on mid-Aug trip reports.
2nd week is taking my girlfriend and some local hiking friends to Titcomb. (if they don't all cancel due to Covid)
3rd week is GF only.
Week 4-4.5 is with my nephew.
Typical miles = 10-12 entry and exit (high is 22) if on-trail and 5-8 in between, terrain/trail dependent.

For Wk 3 need something with few nights out, maybe out of Lander since that's new to her (we'll dayhike GTNP at the end for 3 days, and see Jade L and 5 Pockets as acclimation hikes for Wk 2)

Wk 4-4.5 the weather is a bigger factor. Planning 2 separate trips vs 1 long one (close to bailout). May rule out crossing the divide. But, my nephew does enjoy a challenge. Titcomb was ok, Over Fall Ck pass to Golden Lakes and back out by Hays/Round Mtn in the wind and sleet for 20 miles in a day was phenomenal. Getting snowed out of Deep Ck lakes after 1 night was disappointing.

Would appreciate comments on some ideas and other suggestions. I've done parts (camped at Rainbow, Native, Lower Deep Ck). Bear hang or Ursack?

Ideas for GF or nephew:
1. Scab Ck TH: Middle Fk Basin area (camps at Rainbow, Bewmark, ?) – 4 days
2. Worthen Meadow: Deep Ck L, Wind River Peak, Stough Ck return – 4 days (best base camp for peak ascent? would like to do without full packs. Stream crossings?)

Ideas for nephew:
1. Green River TH: Roaring Fk to Faler, Daphne & Bear L – 4 days
2. Glacier TH: Horse Ridge off trail from Ink Wells to Glacier Lakes – 6 days
3. Bear Basin (Roaring Fk to Native, fish Native, Faler, via Crescent? to Daphne camp. Dayhike to Bear, Rocking Horse. (11K too cold for late Sept? Not a place to get stuck in a big snow) - 5 days
4. Big Sandy TH: East Fk dayhike from camp at Skull, move camp to Shadow, over Texas to Cirque, back via Jackass) - 4 days
5. Repeat trip to Golden Lakes, continue to Bull Lake Ck for goldens, see the Fortress - 6 days

 

[OldBill]

Learned that Lander has been a hot spot for COVID so that may rule out those options. Usually stay at a motel before and after. Not sure how good mask and distancing rules are being enforced.

 

[TheMountainRabbit]

Not sure how good mask and distancing rules are being enforced.

In my experience, not very well at all.

In all my trips this year, I'm trying to stick to 100% self-sufficiency (except filling up w/ gas) or canceling the trip. I'm anticipating the need to continue that until the end of the year. It may be overkill, but it makes me feel better.

I love the Ursack for anywhere it's allowed in the Rockies - or anywhere else for that matter. Not enough big trees to ever hang reliably - especially at elevation - and way lighter than a can.

I should be out there for 9 days in late August and again for 7 days in mid-September.

 

[OldBill]

Still at the stage where I like motels or commercial campgrounds to recover and prepare or if a major storm hits.

Had no response from motels or Visitors Center in Lander regarding COVID. Pinedale seems to be taking it more seriously, but until masks are mandatory and enforced it will continue to accelerate. Will get supplies in Jackson since it's safer, even though more crowded.

Nearly all the group cancelled. With masks, HEPA, high air flow and lower capacity experts say flying is safer than being inside restaurants or gyms.

Still looking forward to the trip. If we cross paths, I'll be the one waving from 1/4 mile away.

 

[TheMountainRabbit]

With masks, HEPA, high air flow and lower capacity experts say flying is safer than being inside restaurants or gyms.

I unfortunately had to fly for a funeral last month and definitely believe this. With the greatly decreased traffic at the airport and most airlines selling no more than 2/3 of their seats, it was surprisingly easy to maintain distance and everyone I saw was following posted guidelines.

 

[Jorey]

Still heading out Bill?

I’ll be out there two weeks from 8/24 to 9/8ish or 9/12-9/30 depending on work stuff. Will wave hello.


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[OldBill]

Assembling gear now. Trying to convince GF to pack lighter. 2-3 of my group haven't canceled and nephew seems like he'll be able to come. His company won't let him travel to what they consider hot spots.

Definitely wave! Looking forward to getting back there. Haven't seen too many reports yet. Hope they get rain. Any destinations you've set?

Saw you did Slide/Wittenberg/Cornell recently. Too hot and humid for me right now. Did that as a ~20 mile dayhike a few years back. The Cornell Crack was fun.

 

[OldBill]

Headed out for these adventures tomorrow. Luckily, WY has escaped the dreaded COVID quarantine list. Will definitely need to be careful around Lander. Even a few from my hiking group have stuck it out. Thanks to all for the feedback. Will post a hopefully non-boring trip report at some point.

 

[Born to Hike]

MODERATOR NOTE:
This post includes potentially dangerous misinformation. For reference, see: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pre...ing-dangerous-chlorine-dioxide-products-claim

Learned that Lander has been a hot spot for COVID so that may rule out those options. Usually stay at a motel before and after. Not sure how good mask and distancing rules are being enforced.

FYI: Most outdoors people who use different means of purifying water most likely have a "secret" (should'nt be a secret..) weapon for covid or any type of viral infection: Sodium Chlorite..used as drops to purify water..Aquamira is a popular brand..kills ALL viruses and can be taken internally (please note I am not prescribing, just sharing). Safe dose for a person is usually what is used to purify 2 Liters of water. Has worked wonders for me when deep in the backcountry when I started to fill ill from bad food, unsanitary conditions, overdoing it or just a bug of some kind. Also kills the fear from the pandemic hysteria..just sayin..
There used to be many hundreds of testimonials online found on platforms such as Youtube about people using this simple mineral for all kinds of illnesses and infections, but big tech has worked hard the past few years removing most of it.

 

[Jorey]

FYI: Most outdoors people who use different means of purifying water most likely have a "secret" (should'nt be a secret..) weapon for covid or any type of viral infection: Sodium Chlorite..used as drops to purify water..Aquamira is a popular brand..kills ALL viruses and can be taken internally (please note I am not prescribing, just sharing). Safe dose for a person is usually what is used to purify 2 Liters of water. Has worked wonders for me when deep in the backcountry when I started to fill ill from bad food, unsanitary conditions, overdoing it or just a bug of some kind. Also kills the fear from the pandemic hysteria..just sayin..
There used to be many hundreds of testimonials online found on platforms such as Youtube about people using this simple mineral for all kinds of illnesses and infections, but big tech has worked hard the past few years removing most of it.

Are you suggesting Aqua Mira kills COVID?


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[Born to Hike]

Sounds like a wonderful trip!

Are you suggesting Aqua Mira kills COVID?


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Absolutely! Sodium Chlorite when activated as instructed kills all viruses, including COVID.

 

[Jorey]

Sounds like a wonderful trip!

Absolutely! Sodium Chlorite when activated as instructed kills all viruses, including COVID.

Sorry. To clarify, it sounded like you were suggesting taking AquaMira as a preventative against COVID infection. Is that what you are saying?

Also, the active ingredient in AM is Chlorine Dioxide.


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[Born to Hike]

MODERATOR NOTE:
This post includes potentially dangerous misinformation. For reference, see: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pre...ing-dangerous-chlorine-dioxide-products-claim

Sorry. To clarify, it sounded like you were suggesting taking AquaMira as a preventative against COVID infection. Is that what you are saying?

Also, the active ingredient in AM is Chlorine Dioxide.


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AM could indeed by used as a preventative against and kill COVID infection: It is Sodium Chlorite in stable form and when activated becomes Chlorine Dioxide..which does indeed kill and prevent viral infections and a host of other nasty pathogens - and is SAFE when using proper concentrations following correct guidelines. AM does not provide guidelines on how to use its product to prevent or kill viral infections in the human body, however - simply how to purify water which is then ready for consumption.
Here is another link that provides more info on this very interesting mineral from a company out of Australia that prepares and sells this ingredient for personal use (and water treatment): URL DELETED BY MODERATOR

 

[Jorey]

AM could indeed by used as a preventative against and kill COVID infection: It is Sodium Chlorite in stable form and when activated becomes Chlorine Dioxide..which does indeed kill and prevent viral infections and a host of other nasty pathogens - and is SAFE when using proper concentrations following correct guidelines. AM does not provide guidelines on how to use its product to prevent or kill viral infections in the human body, however - simply how to purify water which is then ready for consumption.
Here is another link that provides more info on this very interesting mineral from a company out of Australia that prepares and sells this ingredient for personal use (and water treatment): URL DELETED BY MODERATOR

Oof. I’m not gonna continue to discuss this with you. I just wanted to understand what you were saying before mentioning to anyone else reading this that needs to hear it; This is bleach. Don’t drink bleach. Unless you’re doing it as directed to purify water, not your body.

Danger: Don’t Drink Miracle Mineral Solution or Similar Products

The FDA warns you not to drink sodium chlorite products such as Miracle Mineral Solution. These products can make you sick.

www.fda.gov

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[Born to Hike]

Oof. I’m not gonna continue to discuss this with you. I just wanted to understand what you were saying before mentioning to anyone else reading this that needs to hear it; This is bleach. Don’t drink bleach. Unless you’re doing it as directed to purify water, not your body.

Danger: Don’t Drink Miracle Mineral Solution or Similar Products

The FDA warns you not to drink sodium chlorite products such as Miracle Mineral Solution. These products can make you sick.

www.fda.gov

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Sorry to offend - no intention there whatsoever.

In my own defense I am speaking from personal experience, AND with a little research anyone can find out about sodium chlorite and how to use it for their own personal use in a safe and effective way.

Also, with a bit of research one can learn the FDA is not much more than a pawn of big pharma that cannot patent and make a profit from sodium chlorite, which costs a few pennies or less per dose.

 

[Stickerbumper]

Sorry to offend - no intention there whatsoever.

In my own defense I am speaking from personal experience, AND with a little research anyone can find out about sodium chlorite and how to use it for their own personal use in a safe and effective way.

Also, with a bit of research one can learn the FDA is not much more than a pawn of big pharma that cannot patent and make a profit from sodium chlorite, which costs a few pennies or less per dose.

Since I work in medical research I feel like I have to point out a few things so everyone is well informed:

1. Aquaria labels Part A as "chlorine dioxide in solution" and Part B as a "phosphoric acid activator". Mixing the two parts together activates a chemical reaction which releases chlorine dioxide gas (the active ingredient). While I do not know for sure what exactly they put in Part A (because they don't tell us), it is most likely sodium chlorite (not to be mistaken with sodium chloride .... that is the salt you use for cooking). Importantly, sodium chlorite on its own is not effective in killing bacteria, viruses and parasites such as Giardia or Cryptosporidium.

2. Bleach comes in many different flavors, but the most common one is sodium hypochlorite which releases chlorine gas as the active ingredient Since chlorine gas is not as effective in killing Giardia and Cryptosporidium, bleach should not be used as a replacement for Aquamira.

3. While chlorine dioxide can kill viruses, it is not a viable treatment for viral infections, including SARS-CoV2, mainly for two reasons: First, SARS-CoV2 is a respiratory virus, so drinking a (concentrated and activated) chlorine dioxide solution will do very little against it. For it to be useful you would have to inhale the gas. However, our respiratory tract is extremely sensitive to chlorine dioxide gas, so please don't inhale the gas! Second, chlorine dioxide, when used at the required concentrations, can have severe side-effects including vomiting and diarrhea, low blood pressure due to dehydration and acute liver and respirator failure, the latter of the two are likely lethal.

4. @Born to Hike : I am happy to hear that you have never gotten sick in the backcountry, because that would be very miserable. However, as you acknowledge, you are speaking from personal experience, so all evidence is anecdotal and you do not even know if you were going to get sick in the first place. Fortunately, our bodies have incredible immune systems that can deal with most pathogens just fine. Often, you will feel the sickest when the worst is actually already over. I think during these times it is extremely important that we all listen to scientists and medical professionals and do not to spread rumors or anecdotal evidence (good recent examples are the use of Hydroxychloroquine, bleach or high level UV irradiation as treatments for COVID-19). The reason it takes so long to develop vaccines and medical treatments is that their effectivity and safety is actually tested in randomized clinical trials. These do not exist for chlorine dioxide gas as a treatment against SARS-CoV2 (or any other virus likely due to reasons listed above) and hence, chlorine dioxide it is not a safe treatment or preventative, despite the fact that chlorine dioxide would certainly inactivate the virus.

5. As of right now, the only effective measures we have against the virus are sanitizing our hands, social distancing and wearing a mask every time we are in proximity of other people. Yes, EVERY TIME! I know mask wearing can be pretty annoying sometimes (heck, I live in Salt Lake and that mask is really warm in the summer), but I still wear it when I'm around others. Just see it as an act of decency and kindness

6. I think it is best to stop this discussion now and go back to the actual purpose of @OldBill's post.

Best,

Stickerbumper

 

[Jorey]

Since I work in medical research I feel like I have to point out a few things so everyone is well informed:

1. Aquaria labels Part A as "chlorine dioxide in solution" and Part B as a "phosphoric acid activator". Mixing the two parts together activates a chemical reaction which releases chlorine dioxide gas (the active ingredient). While I do not know for sure what exactly they put in Part A (because they don't tell us), it is most likely sodium chlorite (not to be mistaken with sodium chloride .... that is the salt you use for cooking). Importantly, sodium chlorite on its own is not effective in killing bacteria, viruses and parasites such as Giardia or Cryptosporidium.

2. Bleach comes in many different flavors, but the most common one is sodium hypochlorite which releases chlorine gas as the active ingredient Since chlorine gas is not as effective in killing Giardia and Cryptosporidium, bleach should not be used as a replacement for Aquamira.

3. While chlorine dioxide can kill viruses, it is not a viable treatment for viral infections, including SARS-CoV2, mainly for two reasons: First, SARS-CoV2 is a respiratory virus, so drinking a (concentrated and activated) chlorine dioxide solution will do very little against it. For it to be useful you would have to inhale the gas. However, our respiratory tract is extremely sensitive to chlorine dioxide gas, so please don't inhale the gas! Second, chlorine dioxide, when used at the required concentrations, can have severe side-effects including vomiting and diarrhea, low blood pressure due to dehydration and acute liver and respirator failure, the latter of the two are likely lethal.

4. @Born to Hike : I am happy to hear that you have never gotten sick in the backcountry, because that would be very miserable. However, as you acknowledge, you are speaking from personal experience, so all evidence is anecdotal and you do not even know if you were going to get sick in the first place. Fortunately, our bodies have incredible immune systems that can deal with most pathogens just fine. Often, you will feel the sickest when the worst is actually already over. I think during these times it is extremely important that we all listen to scientists and medical professionals and do not to spread rumors or anecdotal evidence (good recent examples are the use of Hydroxychloroquine, bleach or high level UV irradiation as treatments for COVID-19). The reason it takes so long to develop vaccines and medical treatments is that their effectivity and safety is actually tested in randomized clinical trials. These do not exist for chlorine dioxide gas as a treatment against SARS-CoV2 (or any other virus likely due to reasons listed above) and hence, chlorine dioxide it is not a safe treatment or preventative, despite the fact that chlorine dioxide would certainly the virus.

5. As of right now, the only really effective measures we have against the virus are sanitizing our hands, social distancing and wearing a mask every time we are in proximity of other people. Yes, EVERY TIME! I know mask wearing can be pretty annoying sometimes (heck, I live in Salt Lake and that mask is really warm in the summer), but I still wear it when I'm around others. Just see it as an act of decency and kindness

6. I think it is best to stop this discussion now and go back to the actual purpose of @OldBill's post.

Best,

Stickerbumper

Thanks for your expertise and taking the time and effort to share it.

[mention]OldBill [/mention]my apologies for my part in derailing this thread.


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[Dave]

Chiming in as moderator: this conversation is off topic. @Born to Hike was previously issued a warning for posting potentially dangerous misleading information. Any further discussion on this topic will result in the thread being locked and offending posts deleted.