Grand Staircase grazing plan

[intuitive cat]

I'll add one more interesting thing of note to this discussion.
remember the cow stuck in Little Death Hollow last year? Yeah? well, right now there is one stuck in Peek-a-Boo Gulch.
it will be rather interesting to see how that plays out. The monument itself is supposedly using a photo of it in order to promote their views on the Grazing Plan. unfortunately I haven't been able to make it down there myself to get a shot of it.

 

[Nick]

Oh boy... that one sees a lot more traffic than LDH. That's going to make a splash. If they need any more pictures like that, they're welcome to use mine all they'd like!

For those that weren't around (graphic images of 3 dead cows in LDH):
http://backcountrypost.com/forum/threads/graphic-images-dead-cows-in-little-death-hollow.681/

 

[Henk]

This pic is from 10 y ago in Coyote Buttes North when we hiked the Notch Trail.
Getting closer to the Wave area a horrible smell came up.
After a few curves we knew why, when seeing this blown up dead body and a scared skinny one that could barely stand on his legs.

 

[Nick]

Posted in the news thread, seemed relevant to add here:

Cows being typically awful and destructive to GSENM: http://www.sltrib.com/news/1965846-155/dead-cow-clogs-utah-slot-canyon

 

[Laura]

Here's what happened to the cow in Peek-A-Boo slot: http://www.sltrib.com/news/1965846-155/dead-cow-clogs-utah-slot-canyon

That does it for me. I was between Alternative B and C, but I'm definitely going to advocate for B now.

 

[Nick]

Here's what happened to the cow in Peek-A-Boo slot: http://www.sltrib.com/news/1965846-155/dead-cow-clogs-utah-slot-canyon

That does it for me. I was between Alternative B and C, but I'm definitely going to advocate for B now.

Don't forget this is hardly the first time something like that has happened. Granted, the BBQ is a new twist. See link below:

For those that weren't around (graphic images of 3 dead cows in LDH):
http://backcountrypost.com/forum/threads/graphic-images-dead-cows-in-little-death-hollow.681/

Since I finally vented about this last night on FB, I might as well continue here. In my opinion, the whole cow in slot thing is bad, and it certainly makes great headlines, but it's not nearly as problematic as the greater impact of cattle on the soil, plant life and water sources in GSENM. Nature does a pretty good job of cleaning up slot canyons, so long as people don't slow it down by causing big rocks to break off and pin said cow down like has happened in the Peekaboo incident.

I also think it's worth considering that this isn't about recreation vs. grazing, who used the land first or who has mouths to feed. To me, it's just responsible use of land. If recreationists did the same damage that cattle do, I'd say kick them out or regulate them too. While I'll admit that I'm generally not fond of heavily subsidized grazing on any public land, I think it's safe to say there is a lot more land in this country where the impacts are not as severe as they are in the desert. This Abbey quote applies nicely here, I think:

“Strolling on, it seems to me that the strangeness and wonder of existence are emphasized here, in the desert, by the comparative sparsity of the flora and fauna: life not crowded upon life as in other places but scattered abroad in spareness and simplicity, with a generous gift of space for each herb and bush and tree, each stem of grass, so that the living organism stands out bold and brave and vivid against the lifeless sand and barren rock. The extreme clarity of the desert light is equaled by the extreme individuation of desert life-forms. Love flowers best in openness and freedom”

– Edward Abbey, Desert Solitaire​

That just doesn't sound like a place cattle should be grazing. Cows should be in green, grassy places where it isn't 105 degrees with sparse bits of grass scattered between sand and sagebrush. Someplace where water is a bit more abundant than the occasional spring or seep or tiny stream. Someplace where cow pies can actually break down and go back into the soil, not turn into petrified, sun-baked piles of shit that will still be there in 50 years. And in my own opinion, on private land.

I remember my first trip into Chimney Canyon (San Rafael Swell). There were probably a dozen or so cows in the lower part of that great, big canyon. Maybe more, but not a lot. As we walked for miles, quite literally every single sprig of grass was chewed down to the dirt. Every little spring and seep was cowed up and disgusting. Cow shit all over in the only water for miles. Every square inch of the soil seemed to be pounded by cow hooves, making every breeze that came through send sand into the air and every footstep grueling.

Then just a year and a half later I returned. The cows were gone. The grass had returned, the water was pristine and the soil was hard and crisp and a joy to walk on. It's amazing how quick the desert can spring back from such abuse, but it's no reason to allow it in the first place. </endrant>

 

[Laura]

I'm quoting from that in my response to the BLM!

 

[Nick]

Another thing to consider, at least in respect to Glen Canyon NRA and the Escalante and Kaiparowitz Plateau areas of GSENM, is that we have already given up a huge amount of land that can no longer be preserved or experienced in it's original state (See Lake Powell). It doesn't seem that crazy of an idea to hang on to and protect some of the unique and wild places that still exist in that region.

 

[Absarokanaut]

Whoops. A minute please.

 

[Absarokanaut]

OK. My apologies.

Langutah,

I respectfully disagree:

Of course none of us knows these things but I honestly believe that I love pristine wilderness as much as any of you, that's why I live in reach of the ones I came to love all summer after summer as a young boy through college starting over forty years ago and can go to a close family place right on the arguable edge of the remotest of it in the 48's any time I want. I want to see cattle leases/ "rights" retired as much as any of you. But when the majority of these lands came together through Federal Acquisition there were express conditions that IMO a 2 Year Notice is inadequate for to say the least.

There is an outdoor ken that asserts ranchers should simply loose what they've been contractually obligated access to. Like I've always said I'll pay more for the beef, bison, elk, and other animal proteins I love, but I'll not suggest that one of the agreeable parties that helped bring so much of our larger public lands together simply be thrown out in the cold, under the bus, or by any means however lucrative their business has proven to be at times. That's IMO just not what our Republic is supposed to be.

Raise money, buy people off, and be done with it. However environmentally sound arguments always are for reduction of range usage it comes down to a commodity with a price that could be quickly raised by good causes if they just stopped trying to dictate their morality and came to the common denominator, money.

Look at how the environmental organization you support spends money. I think a new era is upon us, and just as in government and community environmental organizations need to held accountable for how they really spend their money. I support several, some I disagree with on less than a handful of issues.; but when it comes to wildlife and greater acreage protection I'm very particular. I call on every organization out there that purports to truly care to raise money towards the equitable retirement of cattle leases and other public lands entitlements that would not only serve the environment but the public's space as well. If you don't aspire to REALLY direct SIGNIFICANTLY more DIRECTLY to habitat and recreational acquisition than the arguably tiny fraction of your funds you extant do then IMO you're not ready for the body of this century's needs. May my optimism win out over my cynicism.

May the expectations we have for the treasures that belong to each and every one of us be met by the resolve of accepting the ultimate cost and simply getting on with it all. Enjoy your weekend folks,

John

 

[charlieinkanab]

Trying to follow any logic about grazing here is giving me a headache. All I see is I don't like cow poop and don't like cows where I hike. Get with it folks. These are crap reasons.
How would you like it if you had a family business that had been going to 150 years and someone came along and talked the government into outlawing your wigits? This is a complicated issue.
Grazing not environmentally friendly?? Where did anybody get that. Time to actually think and not repeat what SUWA says. You are talking about the lives of families and communities, real people just like you., trying to raise a family. Buying out grazing allotments, same thing about the wigits. Hundreds of tourists come to Kane county and are thrilled to see cattle and talk to real cowboys. This is our culture and our lives you are talking about. It is not something abstract to us.
If you have a REAL issue, lets discuss it, but so far on this blog it has been all bullshit.
charlieinKanab

 

[Nick]

Trying to follow any logic about grazing here is giving me a headache. All I see is I don't like cow poop and don't like cows where I hike. Get with it folks. These are crap reasons.
How would you like it if you had a family business that had been going to 150 years and someone came along and talked the government into outlawing your wigits? This is a complicated issue.
Grazing not environmentally friendly?? Where did anybody get that. Time to actually think and not repeat what SUWA says. You are talking about the lives of families and communities, real people just like you., trying to raise a family. Buying out grazing allotments, same thing about the wigits. Hundreds of tourists come to Kane county and are thrilled to see cattle and talk to real cowboys. This is our culture and our lives you are talking about. It is not something abstract to us.
If you have a REAL issue, lets discuss it, but so far on this blog it has been all bullshit.
charlieinKanab

Charlie,

We don't usually venture into such potentially hot topics around here, but when we do, we have a strict rule to keep it calm and respectful. Please try to state your position respectfully, or choose not to use the site. Accusing people of only reciting what 'SUWA says' and calling their concerns not 'real' isn't a good way to discuss anything. I'm sure there are folks on here who have opinions that may be more to your liking, but at the same time, it shouldn't be all that surprising that a good segment of hikers/backpackers are not big fans of grazing.

Frankly, it seems to me like you aren't really here to discuss the topic but rather to convince people that your way is the right way. I find that is rarely a successful tactic, especially on the internet. But to each his own. Good luck.

-Nick

 

[charlieinkanab]

Nick,
You are right and I apologize. It is difficult for me to read these opinions and not get upset. It seems that the idea that grazing affects real people is lost and that overpowers me.
charlieinkanab

 

[slc_dan]

Nick,
You are right and I apologize. It is difficult for me to read these opinions and not get upset. It seems that the idea that grazing affects real people is lost and that overpowers me.
charlieinkanab

I think if you look through the posts too, it's not that we find poop inconvenient, or hate cows, it's the damage they do. GSENM is a beautiful diamond in the rough to most of us here. I've found cows rotting in slot canyons-more than once. I've found spring, the only water in 20-30 miles totally destroyed and undrinkable to me, but more importantly the wildlife. This is a backcountry site, so of course our view is not objective. We can sympathize that grazing affects real people, but we really can't empathize with it.

 

[charlieinkanab]

DAN,
Glad you rang back in. Merry Christmas and Happy NY. Help me to understand. You have found dead cattle. OK I get that and you have found water supplies ruined. OK I get that too. Here is the catch. Do you think ranchers want that? Dead cattle cost them money. If you think that wildlife can't drink the water, then cattle can't either. Ranchers develop water sources for both cattle and wildlife. I would think that any rancher who doesn't want to go broke would try to fix both these problems.
FYI, take along a good water filter, and whatever water you find is potable.
As I said in my first post, I was a longtime hiker/backpacker too. When I moved to SLC in 1975, I went to the Uintas and the west desert. It wasn't until the late 80s that I discovered how much I love the southern desert, both around Moab, and here in Kanab.
In a previous post you mentioned denial of access and I asked for specifics. Please tell me about that.
The area now called GSENM has been grazed for over 150 years.
Do you think there is really a lot of damage done by cattle. And just to note, I am a site stewart for GSENM Partners. I have seen some damage to petroglyphs myself, but that was easily corrected with a fence. I'm not saying that cattle do no wrong, but I'm trying to find balance. Remember also that one rotten cattleman spoils a lot of hearts.
Enjoy the holidays
charlieinkanab

 

[Dave]

In case anyone wonders what the remediated Peek-A-Boo looks like, these are from March 21, 2015… months after the cowbecue. My apologies for the poor quality of the shots. It smelled like rotting diarrhea and I wanted to move on as quickly as possible.







The official story from BLM (told to me directly in my professional capacity as a news reporter covering this story) is that the fence line likely broke during the heavy monsoonal storms of fall 2014. But the heavy load of cow dung surrounding the Dry Fork slots has me skeptical.

 

[charlieinkanab]

Dan and friends,I just found this and thought it might be of interest:
the impact of cows and other grazers on the landscape

 

[gnwatts]

Re: Allan Savory
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/...nd_the_benefits_of_holistic_grazing_have.html
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/...nd_the_benefits_of_holistic_grazing_have.html

http://www.inexactchange.org/blog/2013/03/11/cows-against-climate-change/

I could keep on going but it is getting redundant finding articles trashing this guy and his methodology.

 

[slc_dan]

Cows can be a great addition to a landscape full of grass, but in our sandstone desert? That's a bit different. We just plain don't have the water. Trucking water in on a pickup isn't really a sustainable-nor cost effective in the long term plan-IMO.

 

[andyjaggy]

I've always thought it odd that we graze cattle in the middle of the desert. It seems rather counter intuitive to me. You can't honestly tell me that it's prime grazing habitat. Having grown up in the city I just don't understand that type of life, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't respect it.

I think Bundy did fellow ranchers a huge disfavor when he did what he did. Here is an article about a real man and rancher.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...at-a-real-Western-rancher-is?detail=facebook#